Call to Order
The meeting was called to order
at 6:05 p.m.
Present - Creamer, Jeffries,
Holden, Patterson, Pelleran, Rasmusson
Absent - Canady
Limited Public Comment Regarding
Chair Jeffries welcomed the
audience and stated that after Public Comment the agenda item
President's Report regarding Program Review will be moved in front of
agenda item Board Member Reports.
He said that no decisions would be made tonight regarding any of
the programs. He stated that what
is heard tonight, articles, letters, and phone calls, the trustees have
received will be reviewed and considered in the Board's decision
Chair Jeffries stated that the
Board went through an extensive strategic planning process last year and
is currently in the process of implementing the plan.
Program and Service Review, as part of this strategic plan, are Board
policy and the Board has instructed the President to proceed with their
implementation. Program and
Service Reviews will be ongoing processes.
The strategic plan, and elements such as Program Review and Service
Review have been created and adopted by the Board and it will consider
these processes very seriously as it considers the future of the
Chair Jeffries stated there would
be representatives of several College programs and organizations
addressing the Board tonight. He
stated that only issues on the agenda would be addressed.
After these representatives completed their presentations, the
audience was then given the opportunity to address the Board.
Sally Pierce -Barry told me procrastination paid.
As I said, I would rather have talked after the programs talked,
but I guess I responded first, so here I am.
I wrote comments and I have been amending comments, we will see
where we land. Give me a high
sign in about 8 minutes so I make sure I get what I need.
I am Sally Pierce. I am the
President of the Faculty Association of LCC, MAHE. Here we go.
Board members, LCC administrators, LCC faculty, Lansing Community
College members, thank you for allowing me the time to address you as
President of the Faculty Association.
As you can imagine, and many of you don't have to imagine because you
have been in contact with me for the past two weeks since we heard about
the specific recommendations for program cuts, things have been very
hectic and stressful for the faculty and association for the past two
I have been grateful for the openness of the board members and the
administration. Specifically, I
would like to thank those here who took phone calls, or attempted to
return phone calls. Thank you.
Thank you, Paula, for meeting with me last week to hear my
recommendations and for holding the open forum so the LCC community
could discuss our concerns with you about these proposed cuts.
Most of all, I would like to thank the faculty of LCC who looked at the
proposed cuts and since analyzed data, asked hard questions, and worked
within the system to make a true academic review possible.
As President of LCC MAHE my first concern was for the faculty who
are about to be affected by these cuts.
My second concern was for the students in these programs.
And, thirdly, I came to another concern, which is the one we are
here tonight to address, what will be best for LCC and our community. I
want to report that to a person the faculty and the programs started
reviewing these cuts by thinking first about their students and moving
to the community and then their own personal situations.
I was proud of that, but I wasn't surprised to see that happen.
They started with the students first.
So what do I think should happen? I believe we must review these
proposed cuts and ask if these cuts are wise and what is best for our
college. I believe that the
answer to that question is no, not as they stand, and not as they have
been presented to us. We should
ask can we make these programs better and more cost effective.
I believe the answer to that is yes.
And furthermore, I believe that we must ask will these cuts weaken
our other programs at LCC as a whole.
I believe the answer to that is yes, also.
Is MAHE against program review?
Does MAHE against program cuts, not necessarily.
We like to work with you not mop up after, and I think we have been
working with you but the specific cuts came as a shock to MAHE,
specifically recommendations to cut faculty members starting in August.
That was a shock to us. Let
me address the programs in the order they appear in recommendation. And you will hear more from specific programs but I will highlight
what I have been able to gather from talking to different programs.
The aviation flight program has raised questions about community impact
by talking about Aero Genesis and Aero Wisconsin, an impact they have on
those businesses in the area. I
am sure the board is familiar with that and you have been reading the
papers. They also took a look at
the cost figures and they told me they have been corrected and flight
numbers are at the College's average.
I understand we have other cost changes.
They have also raised questions about cost analysis in general. Why is flight carrying all the cost for the aviation program
administrator and why are students and faculty asked to solve problems
of administration. Why weren't
these cost figures corrected before they came to the board. But better
they be corrected now than later and I understand some stuff probably
has been corrected since we saw stuff dated February 2nd, so I am not
even sure which things are corrected and which aren't.
But one thing I do know is the process seems flawed, it seems to me
before a recommendation comes to you guys we ought to collectively as a
college be sure of our numbers, figures and impact.
We will do better next time.
I have faith.
Court reporting. In a few minutes
Carol Thomas will tell you about the growth she knows is coming in her
field and about the impact LCC's court reporting program has had on this
community. I want only to state
that I know she is one of our finest and kindest faculty members and if
there is any way to preserve her program, LCC, the profession of court
reporting and our community will be well served.
At any rate, I know her program will need to run for seven
semesters not the six in the original recommendation and Paula has
assured me this would happen and I hope and expect it will.
When we come to dance, I encounter one of the travesties of this
program review. The full time
lead faculty for that program is on an unpaid leave right now and she is
training at her own expense in New York City.
I was told from the onset that Missy would have no position at LCC
in the fall and the department was told the same thing when they sent
forward class next week with her name on it.
Classes that would be offered to majors completing their programs.
The list of classes came back marked staff.
I was told that part time faculty would teach, and not have a
contract for a full time faculty member.
That is not acceptable to MAHE.
I was lead to believe in a meeting on Thursday with Paula and Dave
Davidson, that this would not be the case.
I am hoping that is not the way it happens.
I know that their program has talked about how to preserve dance in
depth and breath for this community and maybe there will be a major and
maybe there won't be a major.
There is a lot of concern about that conversation having to take place
under very limited time. A less
than ideal situation.
The Dental Assistant Program.
They will talk about licensure and about impact that their grads have on
this community and the demand for grads.
I again, because I am focusing on the people.
I am thinking about the full time faculty member there who is
approaching retirement and who thought she would come back and teach
part time after she retired. We
will need to address transitions for the people, and you know that.
But the issue for me is that the different transitions for
different people are going to need to be different.
Because of different programs they have different needs.
In aviation there are 2 faculty members who have serious concerns
about health care because of their family's needs for continued health
care. Those are going to be
really important. Things to think
I am not fussing about the medical assistant program because as far as I
know there are no students that impacted and no faculty members
Quality Assurance however gets some fuss when it comes to me because,
again, I was told a full time continuing contract faculty member would
not be working in the fall. Now I
am told that may not be the case, that the program is being looked at
more carefully, and that classes might run and that person will work.
I sure hope so. I really
believe that program review is not a failure or a problem if it makes us
look at the hard issues and think about the questions we need to be
asking. But cutting faculty and
cutting programs that affect students and cutting programs that end up
affecting other programs is worrisome to me because the last time we did
major program cuts we also transitioned from quarters to semesters and
we had a huge slide in enrollment.
I don't want that to happen again.
And I am worried that when you look at the numbers and you say okay
this program has this many people involved in it, you may not be also
tracking the people who are taking writing classes who are also in
quality whatever. We don't have a
system that is sophisticated enough right now to track that.
People come here for a major, or passion, or an interest and then
they take other things, but our current program review system does not
track that at all. At least not
in any way I know. So that is a
In conclusion, we are not opposed, MAHE is not opposed to program review
or cuts, but we are opposed to treating individuals unfairly. Jennifer Wimbish sent out a note saying that management and the
associations will be working together to make sure people are treated
fairly. That is really important
and we need to make sure that happens.
If you do go ahead with these cuts, I am really hoping that
whatever we learn from this process will get folded into the future
program review and will be less painful.
There are 6 programs up right now.
I understand there are 12 programs coming, not necessarily facing
cuts but further review. And if we don't have our data sets more solid when we go to make
that review we will have a world of pain and stress in the community and
elsewhere. We need to fix that
and we can. We need to move
forward into the next steps of program review and do it better and we
need to move into the next steps of this program review and make sure
that the people and the programs are treated as best as possible.
That is my 10 minutes.
Carol Thomas -Good evening President Cunningham and members of the Board
of Trustees of Lansing Community College.
I appreciate the opportunity to address you concerning the
recommendation to eliminate the Court Reporting Program at the College. I would like to thank Susie Hofmeister for realtiming this portion
of our meeting for our deaf and hardâ€‘ofâ€‘hearing friends in the audience.
Susie, by the way, is an example of the quality of court reporting
graduates at LCC. She is not only
the board's court reporter, she provides real-time captioning at East
Lansing public schools, LCC and MSU.
My colleagues, my peers, supporters from the Lansing legal community,
leadership of the Michigan Association of Professional Court Reporters,
deaf and hardâ€‘ofâ€‘hearing students who request real-time captioning in
their classes and parents of those students are here in support of
continuing the long tradition of providing top quality court reporting
education at Lansing Community College.
We are here to pledge our support to the College, and to the community
and to the court reporting profession.
Most of us are taxpayers; some of us mentor students, provide internship
opportunities, attend advisory committee meetings, and hire LCC
Some of us rely on the skill of a court reporter when we conduct
depositions or are involved in court trials and hearings.
Some of us rely on the skill of a court reporter to provide the
communication link that we need as a deaf or hardâ€‘ofâ€‘hearing student in
order to attend school, whether it is middle school, high school,
college, or university. And some
of us rely on the skill of a court reporter to provide the captions that
allow us to watch TV just like all of our hearing friends.
LCC has been the place where success begins for court reporting
LCC has a long tradition of court reporting instruction and an
unmatched reputation in the community and in the state.
We want to see that tradition and that reputation continue.
Court reporting classes here historically have been small and the
cost of operating the program has been high.
That is pretty typical of our profession.
Not everyone is cut out to be a court reporter.
We are a small population.
And those of us who do enter the profession make a substantial
investment in equipment, the tools of our trade.
But it is an industry that rewards us with the potential of a high
income and the satisfaction of being an integral part of the judicial
process and the vital link in communication for deaf and hardâ€‘ofâ€‘hearing
If you have had a chance to look at the packets of information, you have
learned that there is and will continue to be a shortage of court
reporters. The Americans with Disability Act and the new Federal
Communication Commission's rules on broadcast captioning have made a
tremendous impact on our profession.
If you have had a chance to look at the packets of information you
have seen lots of eâ€‘mails and letters of support of continuing the
program here at the College. We
know there is going to be a shortage of court reporters and captioners.
We know that 100% of our graduates will find jobs.
We know what kind of impact the demise of this program will have on
the local legal community and the deaf and hard-of-hearing community.
The court reporting profession has changed dramatically throughout its
long respected history. Court reporters today are not afraid of change,
or advances in technology, or electric or video recording or voice
activated computers or sign language interpreters.
As a matter of fact, we respect and sometimes even use alternative
ways to make a record or accomplish our work.
We respect and work with sign language interpreters to provide
communication accessibility. No,
we are not afraid of change. And
a change is what the LCC Court Reporting Program will have to make if we
want to remain a viable fiscally responsible program.
It is not that we haven't already made some drastic changes since the
first needs/cost programs evaluation.
Major changes were instituted. We
revamped our curriculum, we discontinued night classes, we cut the
number of faculty and staff, we tightened our budget, we started
marketing aggressively, we developed courses for the Virtual College.
The quality and content of instruction in the court reporting
program is not an issue here nor has it ever been an issue.
The issue here is whether we can provide the instruction and
training within the College's financial guidelines and strategic plan.
I believe we can. And that is what I would like to propose to you tonight.
I propose that we offer all court reporting classes via the Virtual
I propose that the College enter into a yearly contractual
agreement with Stenograph University online in order to use their high
quality courses within our curriculum. This would mean no additional cost to the College for development
of Virtual College classes.
The current curriculum would have to be modified to fit
Stenograph's online courses but all areas of study would be covered and
all educational requirements on committee of reporting education of the
National Court Reporter's Association would be met.
In my proposal court reporting students would be charged a substantial
lab fee of approximately $100 per course which would in turn pay for the
charges paid to Stenograph. I
took a quick poll of current students last week asking if they would
have a problem with $100 lab fee for a course they could take through
the Internet. And all of them
expressed to me that $100 doesn't even start to pay for gas or wear and
tear on a car or daycare or having to change jobs so they can attend day
classes. They told me they would gladly pay higher lab fees.
That means the cost of the course packages would be passed on to
the students and not an expense to the College.
That leaves tuition to pay for my salary and benefits, a partâ€‘time
support staff or adjunct faculty, depending on how big the program gets,
and a little professional travel money.
In order for this to work there would have to be 60 students in the
program. There are currently 30
students at various stages in the program.
So 30 new students each year would keep the return on investment
average close to the College's recommendation.
Here is a list of 50 potential court-reporting students.
I have been in contact with all of them.
Some of them have already applied for college admission and
selective admission. Some of them were ready to take the Virtual class
this semester; some of them are taking their core classes.
With continued aggressive marketing locally and the support of the
National Court Reporter's Association and the College's marketing
department I think we can enroll at least 30 students every year.
Obviously the recruiting will focus on potential students within the
triâ€‘county area, but efforts to recruit students in the rest of the
state would certainly increase enrollment potential.
I propose we shut down the on campus classes starting fall semester
2001. Any current students who
have not reached speeds by then would move into the Virtual College
course. I would anticipate there
will be between 20 and 30, and new students would begin their training
through the Virtual College.
As a result of program effectiveness and program review, the Court
Reporting Program has indeed improved.
Our student enrollment and average class size this year are
improvements over the 1999â€‘2000 figures you have been provided.
The program will always be one of the smaller ones within the
College but that can't mean it can't meet the requirements of the
The real return on the investment in the program is the number of
successful court reporting graduates.
If you were to take a tour of the circuit and federal courts in Lansing
you would find LCC graduates. If
you were to open the yellow pages of the phone book or bar journal you
would see LCC graduates who own their own court reporting firms and LCC
graduates who are well-respected freelance reporters in the community.
If you travel over to East Lansing schools you would find LCC
graduates providing real-time captioning for deaf and hardâ€‘ofâ€‘hearing
Stop off at MSU and you could meet with three real-time specialists
who provide captioning services for MSU's deaf and hardâ€‘ofâ€‘hearing
All three graduates of LCC.
If you were stop at Cooley Law School or Detroit School of Law at MSU
you would find intern reporters providing services to law students as
they develop their skill at making a record in some of their classes.
A quick trip to Mason and you can meet two court-reporting
graduates. One who captions for
the National Captioning Institute and another who captions for a
California captioning company.
They caption from the comfort of their own homes located in the LCC
And if you were to walk across Capital Avenue into the SPS
building, right now, room 215, you can meet Jennifer Rubley and her
realtime captioner, Tina, another LCC graduate.
Jennifer is a first semester freshman from the St. Johns area who
is hardâ€‘ofâ€‘hearing and who requested realtime captioning as her
accommodation. This technology
allows her to take her Reading 116 class, understand exactly what her
instructor and classmates are saying and have the opportunity to be one
of thousands of successful LCC students.
I urge you to consider my proposal.
I urge you to allow me and colleagues and peers and national supporters
that with a change to Virtual College, and the support of local court
reporters and attorneys, the court reporting program at Lansing
Community College can continue to be the best program in the state and
come into compliance with the fiscal guidelines of the College. Thank
Chair Jeffries -Carol, just a second. Does anyone have any questions
about Carol's proposal or presentation?
Trustee Holden -Yes, Carol, with your proposed plan, does it change
staffing needs at all?
Carol Thomas -I just lost an adjunct faculty, so I am it right now, with
a little support staff and a colleague that helps with one or two
credits of classes, so, no.
Trustee Creamer -I was watching, I forget which news show, the debate
was whether you could take classes at a virtual university, whether that
is as good as having a professor right in front of you.
How does it actually work, do you feel comfortable that you could
actually do the same thing virtually that you can in person?
Carol Thomas -I am comfortable with the Virtual College concept.
Stenograph Corporation has invested lots of money in it, and they have
the Cadillac for what is available for us.
Actually, they have the only prepackaged online course available.
It is different, but it is technology and it is what we use.
And yes, I think the same reputation and the same quality of
education would be the end result of a Virtual College course as opposed
or in addition to the on campus course.
Trustee Pelleran -I have a question, if Stenograph online is already
doing this, what is to prohibit students from going directly to them to
get the same degree, why is LCC necessary?
Carol Thomas -We have more packets for you, there is a letter from the
educational specialist at Stenograph Corporation, they will only work
with schools. They will only work
Trustee Holden -Thank you for clarifying that that was my question.
Trustee Jeffries -I have a couple questions, in terms of you talked
about 30 new students. Is that 30
on top of the 22, that you have in each?
Carol Thomas -When we were crunching numbers, it is 30 students on top
of the 30 students we have now, so we would need to maintain student
enrollment of 60.
Trustee Jeffries -And the $100 lab fee, is that per class or per
semester or how did you calculate that?
Carol Thomas -Stenograph helped us calculate that based on 15 new
students and that would be $100 lab fee for one course per year.
So I haven't done all the math yet.
Trustee Jeffries -How many courses?
Carol Thomas -Probably three. I
have not tried to fit the Stenograph into our curriculum at this point.
Trustee Jeffries -Possibly a $300 total cost.
Trustee Pelleran -On your marketing you said you would continue your
aggressive marketing, can you give us an example of the type of
marketing you have been conducting?
Carol Thomas -Sure, I won a thousand dollar grant from the National
Court Reporter's Association and the marketing folks here at LCC helped
us decide how we were going to use that money, we also were given the
basics of a TV ad and allowed to change it any way we wanted to.
So with the help of the media department we developed our own TV ad
and we used the marketing money from the grant to market the ad on
Trustee Pelleran -Have you obtained tangible numbers of folks that have
come to your program through the aggressive marketing plan that you have
Carol Thomas -I have potential students that when they talk to me, I ask
them, where did you hear about us, and I have lists of those people,
they either saw the ad on TV, and we ran it locally and then we ran it
on the west side of the state.
They saw the information in the career focus, or somebody told them
about the program.
Trustee Pelleran -Do we conduct any marketing with the different school
districts that are comprised of the Lansing Community College district
as well to reach out to the grades middle school or below with career
opportunities for young people?
Carol Thomas -We participate in the 8th grade visits that occur on a
monthly basis during the semester and anything that LCC promotes as
marketing in the community we also participate in that.
We also go to the west side of the state we are invited over there
because there is not a court reporting school over there.
Trustee Holden - Carol, we understood that it is a very difficult
program and that retention or maybe drop out can be a challenge. How many people would you need to recruit to retain the 30 for the
Carol Thomas -Probably 40. We
have tried to turn that around.
When I went through the program there were 30 of my classmates and 3 of
us graduated. So we have tried to turn that around and have turned that
around with selective admission, testing, things like that.
Trustee Holden -Will Virtual College help that graduation rate or hinder
Carol Thomas -It is my expectation that it will help it. Lots of things in life get in the way of having to travel to LCC,
at least with the outâ€‘ofâ€‘district folks, and I believe the opportunity
to use this course right at home will be very beneficial and help folks
that might have other stresses in their life that pull on them from
being successful in school.
Trustee Jeffries -Will this be an accredited program still?
Carol Thomas -Yes, the National Court Reporter's Association is really
encouraging us at looking at long distance learning.
Trustee Jeffries -It is my understanding in Michigan that all you need
is to be certified and not accredited.
Carol Thomas -The court reporter needs to be certified. There is a state certification that we give right here at LCC,
there is national certification and there is certification for other
areas like realtime.
Trustee Jeffries -The programs offered on the â€‘-I think there are two on
the east side of the state, maybe three, Macomb and maybe two private
Those are just certified, they are not accredited programs, once
you get there you are certified, is that correct?
Carol Thomas -Let me speak of the two schools in Southfield.
They are both proprietary schools, they are non-degree.
And they are approved by the National Court Reporter's Association.
Trustee Jeffries -One other question.
There is one article in here where they talked about, I don't know if it
was the state of Missouri or a state where there was an actual activity
by some of the accredited programs to go in and lobby in the legislature
to make it mandatory that there will be only a degree or accredited
program, that only those folks can be the court reporters, is that an
effort here in Michigan, to become somewhat exclusive?
Carol Thomas -Not exclusive, and I can have the President of the
Michigan Association speak to this, not to be exclusive, but to hold a
high standard of the profession.
Trustee Jeffries -It would certainly help here if we did that.
Carol Thomas -We do, our court reporters to work as freelance reporters
or official reporters must be certified by the State of Michigan.
Trustee Holden -If you choose to market the Virtual College, you might
put in there savings for parking cost.
Carol Thomas -That's true.
Trustee Pelleran -Carol, I have a question on the investment of
equipment for a student, can you address that and how they might find
other moneys to defray the cost of that?
Carol Thomas -Absolutely. A
student can buy a steno machine anywhere from $400 dollars to $1,200,
depending on what they want, new or used.
Susie's machine over here cost her probably $4,000.
But that is a professional model.
And then we also have software, which is about the same price. So it is very expensive.
But students would only have to purchase their own machines, which
they have to do now, and then they would connect their steno machine to
their computer, go into the virtual class and they would be able to
realtime practice, do their lessons, take timings, and that type of
Trustee Creamer -How fast do you have to do one of those little doo
Carol Thomas -Well, we won't test Susie tonight.
My students graduate at 230 words per minute, 97% accuracy.
Trustee Jeffries -What assistance or support from the legal community
have offered up maybe financial or recruiting efforts?
Carol Thomas -I have a letter from Judge Houk, who is the Chief Justice
I haven't asked them for specific support.
They support us by providing internship positions and also hiring
LCC graduates. I believe if I asked them for some support as far as recruiting or
things, I haven't thought about it at this point, that they would be
very receptive to that.
Dental Assistant Program
Brenda Brown -Board President Jeffries, board members, and President
Thank you for the invitation to speak to you tonight regarding the
recommendation before you to eliminate the Dental Assistant program at
I am the academic team leader for both the dental assistant and
dental hygienist program. I am
also a 1976 graduate of LCC's program.
I taught in that program for 24 years.
I am here to address inaccuracies in the report and provide you
with more information. Your
decision is only as good as the information that it is based.
And that information is wrong.
If you will direct your attention to pages 10 and 11 of the report
I will review my points of order in appearance.
Number 1. Salary data is wrong.
Salaries are not 7 to 10 dollars per hour, they are 12 to 16
dollars per hour.
Number 2. Registered dental
assisting opportunities are not being filled through onâ€‘theâ€‘job
training. Registered dental
assistants cannot be onâ€‘theâ€‘job trained.
Number 3. Dental assisting
doesn't need to be a career ladder for dental hygiene, that is a
different program of study because it is a different career.
Number 4. Given the skills
they must learn we can't graduate the students any faster than a
10-month program. We can't
graduate the RDA fast enough to meet the demands for this position.
LCC's dental assistant program is one of 8 programs statewide.
Contrary to the information given to you the next closest programs
are Flint and Grand Rapids. 65 miles one way.
(Number 5 was not picked up on the tape). Number 6. The campus dental
assistant clinic provides hands on training for the student and dental
care for people who have nowhere else to go.
Number 7. You don't have to
cut one program to expand the other.
My plan for slight program expansion for both programs with the
facilities master plan. We shared
space for 30 years and we can continue to do so for another 30.
Health career programs are expensive, in part due to factors beyond
our control. Accreditation
requirements and fees to maintain accreditation, federal and state
requirements for infection control and maintenance of dental equipment
to name a few. The fourth thing
noted was high enrollment of out of district students.
What is high? Is less than 50% high?
For dental assisting in the years examined,
'98, '99 out of district enrollment was 41% of total enrollment.
The students that choose us tell us they choose us because of the
excellent reputation we enjoy. So
we do get some out of district students, obviously.
The administrations contention that cost/need review has been going
on now for 3 years giving many programs significant time to make
changes, simply is not true. The
first I knew of return on investment data for both the dental assistant
and dental hygienist program was October 2000.
This is not significant time to make changes.
In conclusion, as elected officials you are charged with an awesome
amount of responsibility. Don't
fulfill that responsibility based on erroneous information.
I would be happy to provide you with the documentation I mentioned
and to address any questions you have of me.
Trustee Holden -I have a quick question for you, of the 41% that are out
of district students, are some of those (inaudible) is there another
percentage that you might have that are close proximity, like Charlotte.
Brenda Brown -I think it is anecdotal now but generally they are not
much farther away than a 40, 45 minute driving distance, so fairly
Trustee Jeffries -Some of the information we were provided indicates in
terms of the ROI, coming up short (inaudible), some discussion inside or
outside LCC in terms of how to address that?
What number would you use in terms of what you feel the return on
investment you have or you would need to hit the ROI?
Brenda Brown -I am not disputing that the return on investment for the
program is below the college average or even below 50 cents. It has been shared with me that it takes about $10,000 to budge the
ROI even a penny. So I am aware
of that. I think there maybe
other alternatives to help influence that.
But personally I don't see us ever approaching the college average
of $1.02 ROI. The programs in
health careers do not approach that.
They are expensive programs to run.
So although I think they influence positively, how positively I
don't know. But I haven't had a
lot of time to evaluate the information in front of me and start making
plans for changes either.
Trustee Holden -Yes, you mentioned that you fill capacity each semester,
yet ? .
Brenda Brown -Each fall, Olga.
Trustee Holden -Yes, you have.
Yet we have 16 or 13 students right now in a program.
So help me understand the gap between the 20.
Brenda Brown -As far as the completion, I think what happens is a
student under estimates the type of commitment that it takes to complete
the curriculum because it is demanding.
So typically what happens the first semester is that some students are
not able to devote that time and commitment to what it takes to
And sometimes then, it is not the appropriate time for them, but we
always work with them and encourage them to pursue it again when they
restructure their priorities.
Trustee Holden -Some of the letters we received from either the
association or dentist offices, and certainly your group has pulled
together on this, because we have seen many.
I think you would have a good practice in Washtenaw with all the letters
we received. Some of the letters
talked about looking at different schedule patterns, weekends, evenings. We know weekends we have a lot of capacity, do you see that as a
Brenda Brown -I talked to the Dean about that as an option. I will tell you we ran an evening dental assisting program in 1990,
we had about 45 people at the time that expressed an interest.
Out of the 45, 4 actually committed and completed about 4 years
later. So I think if we are
looking at alternatives we have to be creative and look at the things
that worked in similar areas.
Having said that I will tell you that many of the areas have alternative
programs, have students that are vapor.
They might have 55 students that say they are committed to dental
assisting and they are graduating 3 a year.
So those are other issues we have to look at.
Trustee Holden -Is vapor a dental term?
Brenda Brown -No, vapor as in virtually nonexistent.
But it could be.
Trustee Rasmusson -Would the students be able to pay more, maybe you
covered this and I didn't follow you.
Brenda Brown -I don't know that, I can tell you each student pays $2,683
annually. We are the third
highest program in the state regarding cost.
So there is only so much we are going to be doing or we will price
ourselves right out of the market.
So, yes, I suppose that course fees could be adjusted and just to give
you a little more information, at the last go around I thought about
course fees and adjusting those for the next year.
At the time we weren't able to make an intelligent decision on
which way to go with them. Since that time I have been told we are able
to capture that information in our financial package, so hopefully with
that information I will be able to make an intelligent decision.
But I hesitate to just automatically raise course fees 320%.
I don't see that happening for the program. I think there are other creative ways to address those financial
issues. Does that answer your
Trustee Patterson -Can you be a little more detailed about those
creative â€‘-that is a vapor term to me.
Brenda Brown -I can address vapor.
I think what we could probably do is look at something similar to as you
mentioned the Washtenaw model where they have an alternative delivery
whereby people who have worked in a dental practice but don't have the
credential. They worked in some
capacity in an office for a couple of years and they pass an examination
called the Dental Assisting National Boards successfully in all parts
could come to us for the registered dental assisting piece.
And the way they capture it is do sort of hybrid courses, where
they do a little bit online, and of course when you are working with the
public you have to have hands on, also.
So you would have to have some clinical testing on campus.
But they package their program so that with this 10 credit add on
thing, people are able to come and earn that credential Friday nights
and all day Saturday for a short period of time.
By short I think it is somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 to 15
Trustee Pelleran -These are people who are already working in a dental
office and so understand the riggers of a program.
Brenda Brown -They should be familiar with it, yes.
Trustee Holden -This is not meant to be humorous but is there anything
being done in virtual courses?
Brenda Brown -No, there isn't, not right now.
Trustee Holden -Could there be?
Brenda Brown -With time and resources, absolutely.
Trustee Patterson -Do we have the facilities to house additional
Brenda Brown -Currently, no, unless by additional you are talking about
utilizing the clinical facility at times when it is not currently in
Evenings, weekends, that type of thing.
Yes, that is a possibility, but we are limited because of
accreditation issues we have to meet by the number of units we have
available for the students to use.
Trustee Patterson -But actual square footage, do we have enough room to
double the size of this proposal?
Brenda Brown -No, not in the traditional daytime format. As I mentioned earlier with the master facilities plan proposal
what I tried to look at was increasing both slightly 2 units, I believe,
for dental hygiene and 2 or 3 for dental assisting above and beyond what
we currently have. Figuring in
doing that it would maximize the number of students we could accept in
the program without changing cost of delivery.
Because again we have faculty, student ratios we have to meet and
some other considerations to meet our accreditation standards, so I have
those issues to consider, too.
Trustee Creamer -I just want to make sure I understand what has been
said so far.
You mentioned a Washtenaw model.
Several of us attended a meeting the other day with a room full of
dentists, and I think they spoke of putting together strategic
relationships whereby their offices could be used as off campus learning
centers where we would do the accreditation, is that kind of the Washtenaw model?
Brenda Brown -Yes and no, that is a piece of it. I want to say, 312
hours right now are being given to the program through the generosity of
dental offices. When we
compressed our format from a 2-year associate curriculum to a 10-month
certificate of completion in response from the demand of the community
to graduate people more quickly.
To meet the accreditation requirements for number of clinical hours we
had to look to area dentists to provide the opportunity for students to
So I have a faculty member who evaluates them periodically through
the semester. But those hours are
done in collaboration with the dentists at no charge.
Trustee Holden -That is 312 credit hours per person?
Brenda Brown -No, 312 hours. We
have a number of hours that have to be met through the accreditation. So
what we do is these field experience assignments where they gain
experience working with dental offices with that office's patients.
Trustee Holden -That is per student?
Brenda Brown -Yes.
Trustee Patterson - Are there future needs of the dental hygiene program
that are going to need to be met?
Brenda Brown -Absolutely, but I had never planned on the College
shouldering the brunt of that. I
might be hopefully optimistic that there are still Perkins dollars out
there when it comes to addressing computerizing the clinic.
But for instance, at Kalamazoo Valley Community College they were
able to get a million dollars worth of computer technology through a
Perkins grant that was written between the program director and the
college President. So I had never
seen the College shouldering the full financial burden of trying to
computerize those clinics. As I
mentioned earlier, we share all the equipment as it is.
So whatever is done for one would also be benefiting the other.
Trustee Jeffries -How do you explain in terms of the enrollment, the
rates of graduation, we have been told in '97 there were 21 graduates
and it has simply gone down to now in 2000 there are 11.
What is going on?
Brenda Brown -There were not 21 graduates in '97.
Trustee Jeffries -How many were there?
Brenda Brown -Probably somewhere in the neighborhood of what we are
graduating now. Can you help me?
I can provide you with that.
I do have a chart with it listed but I didn't bring it tonight.
Trustee Jeffries - The numbers we have show 21, 15, 14 and now 11.
It shows there is a reduction.
Is there something going on?
Brenda Brown - As far as how do I explain the reduction? Why does there seem to be a demand for this person and yet at the
same time our enrollment doesn't appear to be burgeoning?
Brian Jeffries -Yes.
Brenda Brown - Those are always complicated questions, aren't they? I
think I will give you the Reader's Digest version.
In my opinion, what is going to happen in the dental assisting
education in the next 3 to 5 year period will look dramatically
different than where we stand today.
There is an adhoc committee right now working with the Michigan Dental
Assistants Association, to look at making the registered dental
assistant credential minimum credential for practicing in a dental
If and when that happens there will be no way to meet the demand
for that particular person. We
will probably have to look at a grand fathering period of 3 to 5 years
to bring those people up to speed and then programs will be opening
statewide to meet that demand.
And talking about alternative delivery, it would be nice to be on the
cutting edge of that and capture that for the future. So the Reader's
Digest version is some of it maybe tied to the credentialing.
Some of it maybe related to the fact that, yes, you go in your
dental office and people working with your dentist are not registered
dental assistants. Having said that they are also not able to do many of the skills
that maximizes the dentist's productivity and efficiency.
So the RDA is in great demand in the triâ€‘county area and
Trustee Holden - You hear it over and over again ?
Brenda Brown - Interestingly enough we got 9 calls in the last
week and a half about people that are interested in dental
assisting that heard the program is closing.
Trustee Pelleran - You mentioned, Brenda, that you did exit interviews
when students were not making the cut.
Have you considered or perhaps you already do, entrance interviews with
Brenda Brown - We stopped doing that when selective admissions came into
We look at a point system for experience knowledge as opposed to
actually doing an interview. When I came into the program there were student interviews, it was
part of the process. We have
eliminated that totally now and look at other aspects for allowing entry
Trustee Pelleran - Do you think the interviews with students do you
think that enrollment maintained at a higher level than it is today?
Brenda Brown - No, I don't think that is what it is related to.
I think it was the issue of having the certificate and the
associate degree program. We had
2 options for people. So you
could have someone credentialed as a CDA with the one-year certificate
of completion and then you also met the need for the associate degree
student, someone who wanted more education or planned to go on and
further their education. So we
were graduating associate degree students, certificate students, and now
we are down to a 10-month certificate of completion program.
Hindsight is always 20/20, isn't it? When I think of it now, I wish
what had happened is we kept the associate degree option. That would be relatively simple to reactivate, but it doesn't
address the concerns you have in your report.
Trustee Patterson - One of the concerns that you brought out in your
comments is the issue of what the health careers will look like in 3 to
Well, it is real interesting to me that you have used October as
the awareness. The campus master
plan which I have a copy of, I would like to know your feelings about
the centerpiece of that recommendation, in phase one is a new health
services room. One of the very
strong recommendations in the study of the campus master plan was in the
dental area, the facilities were sorely inadequate.
But the fact that they can coexist for another 30 years, I as a
trustee, don't really think that that is something I want to support.
Brenda Brown - What I plan for in the new facilities plan was doubling
the size of our facility for both programs two and a half times and I
did that using a model from dental manufacturers and other dental school
plans to address what we needed for adequate space around each unit.
Trustee Patterson - So your program was able to participate fully in the
study of the facility that this campus now has and what could
potentially be used in the future?
Brenda Brown - Participate fully in addressing what we thought we needed
for our area, yes, I provided that information.
I provided that.
Trustee Patterson - Do you support that?
Brenda Brown - The facilities master plan?
Absolutely, anything that gets us out of the lovely garden level in the
basement is good for me. I have
been 24 years with no windows; I would really like to be front and
center on this campus. You know,
when we went through program review in 1994â€‘95 we were one of the first
generations to undergo that because we are so high cost.
Now that first generation program review is much different than the
program effective review plan that is going on right now campus wide. We have not had the benefit to undergo that. That begins for us in
fall 2001. In my opinion, what
drives cost effectiveness comes out of the action plan that your team is
able to develop when they go through that program effectiveness review.
We haven't gone there yet. So
what I tried to do was hurry up and pull things together and try to
decide what the future might look like for us if we had the ideal.
And that is what I did when it came time to putting together those
figures last August.
Quality Assurance Program
Ruby Ivens - I apologize for not getting my report in earlier.
Good evening students, President Cunningham, board members and
colleagues. I have listed my
credentials here for the board to look at because they are important to
what I have to say tonight. I
provide these credentials to show my expertise in the field of Quality
Assurance. I am a practitioner
with 16 years of experience in industry and 20 years experience in
education. I have worked at
Lansing Community College delivering contracted training and teaching in
the degree program as a full time employee since 1987.
I am here to advocate for the students and potential students of
the Quality Assurance program and businesses in the community. However,
it is difficult to distinguish between my thoughts and the program
concerns since I am the only full time faculty in the program.
I am teaching and not working in industry because I am interested
in students and helping them obtain their career goals.
I was a nontraditional student myself who was able to pursue a
dream through education. I want
the same for the students and the community.
As a professional I want the opportunity to make this program as
excellent as it can be and to serve the students.
Up to this point I have only been a source of specific information
when asked for it. All of the recommendations and plans have been made
without asking for my opinion or input on what is best for the students
or how to prepare students for a career in Quality Assurance.
Although you will hear that we have known the numbers and that
certain programs were the lowest quartile, it is only in the last year
that we had the numbers by which we were to be judged.
Even then we were led to believe that the result of program
assessment programs would be helped to improve their numbers.
You will find in the materials that I gave you back about 2/3 of
the way, page 6, there is a list of attachments and you will find the
data that I have and it does not show that the program was targeted for
elimination at that time. It was
only on February 2, 2001, that I learned that the program was targeted
for elimination. At that time I
was told that the decision was final to eliminate all but four courses
and I have not been asked for input on those remaining courses.
Further, I believed that the automotive area of excellence was directed
at providing educated individuals for area companies involved in the
manufacture of automobiles and their components.
Also, that Quality Assurance would be an important part of the
Mâ€‘TEC. I helped write the initial
EDJT grant proposal and a year ago I was part of the faculty team for
the development of curriculum for the Mâ€‘TECs.
I was dismissed from the team at the semester and told that my
expertise was not needed for the curriculum development.
However, I continued to work at developing computer assisted or
online course work. This is also consistent with the directive that more
virtual courses were needed and that it is a way to increase enrollment.
At this time there was only one tech career course on the Virtual
Program history and condition of the program.
I am here to advocate for the Quality Assurance program, the campus
students who are preparing for careers in Quality Assurance and the
businesses in this community that need well educated professionals. I will start with an organization chart.
And you have a simple one on page 2.
It is to differentiate between what the program does and what
contract training does or CQI7R's.
You will see there are departments, accounting, marketing, HR, QA,
production, etc. And then under
accounting I have given an example of specialists that work in that
department and you will see under Quality Assurance that there are
specialists also. That is the
focus of the quality assurance program.
You will see also that contracted training fields with line
workers, although they maybe dealing with some other department members,
although they are not developing the Quality Assurance professionals
that are in the department. Although it has been stated that quality Assurance education and
training is very expensive, you will also note in the attachment B that
return on investment for the CQI is 33 cents for '99â€‘2000 without any
overhead applied. So I am not
sure that canceling a small program that costs about a hundred thousand
dollars will make much difference.
Condition of the program. The
program is small, but there has been limited support from the College to
change the visibility or enrollment in this program.
In fact, several decisions have been made that work against the
viability of the degree program. When contracted training started in the
Quality Assurance program, when faculty delivered training to the
companies students were recruited from these companies, instructors told
individuals how they could get more education to meet their personal
career goals. Students in classes
also informed instructors when there was an opportunity to meet with
company officials and provide on site training.
Thus, there was a synergy between the two efforts.
CQI was also born in the program.
With a reorganization in 1993, contracted training was separated from
the program and sent to the BCI, and the program was told that the
College wanted a single point of contact best marketing and outreach
went to the contracted training.
The program was further crippled when the remaining faculty were
reassigned full time to the contracted training division.
We taught degree courses as a filler or on overload.
In the spring semester of 1994 there were 356 credits generated,
and I am sorry, I don't have the exact numbers to carry through.
But this dropped to 233 in 1995.
Unduplicated head count in 1997 was 40 students and I was selected
for the full time faculty position starting January 1998. At this time the program had been without any faculty for two
The program review of 1999â€‘2000 indicated that currently graduate
students were 100% satisfied or very satisfied with their education.
Employers were 100% satisfied or very satisfied.
All of our students are placed on graduation with salaries up to
$70,000. However data collected for this study and from students each
semester indicates that virtually no one knows there is a degree here in
Quality Assurance. After the
program review in 1999 the program review asked for help in marketing.
So far, it has yet to materialize.
Recommendations to the board of trustees indicating the recommendation
that you received from the College and the data.
Recommendations include data that is in error and presents a biased
picture of the program and it's potential.
Recommendations to send our students to other colleges is a disservice
to our community, potential students, and the local businesses.
There is a data correction there in 1998â€‘99, there was a $48,000
charge to the Quality Assurance program for a coordinate measurement
machine, which was requested by and used by the machining department.
So if you take out that the return on investment is 51 cents.
And there is supporting data for that in the attachments.
B. The number of graduates for the past 5 years, recommendation
indicates 5 to 10 depending on which line you read.
See the attachments there is actually 24. Preferred degree is
business. There is no indication
that the preferred degree is business.
Quality Assurance courses are usually taught in engineering or
technical departments and you have the curriculum for Ferris University
and Sienna Heights University attached.
The financial impact on students though is something that I think we
need to seriously consider and there is a chart.
The chart is relatively complicated so I will just point out just a
couple of numbers and I would be glad to answer questions you have on
those numbers later. But you will
see on associate degree, and I calculated that at 62 hours at 49 dollars
an hour. LCC total cost is $3,038
just for the tuition.
The fees for the program are relatively small in the neighborhood
of 5 and 10 dollars per course.
If you drop down to the bottom of that table you will see that if you
take the recommendation, page 4.
Am I reading too fast? Page 4.
Baker College, an associate degree in Applied Science for Quality
Assurance is 101 credit hours. I
believe they are on quarters. It
is 150 dollars a credit. So if
you take the 16 credits that I am assuming would be the 4 courses that
are recommended and then take the rest of them at Baker College, you
would pay $12,750 plus the $784 that you would pay at Lansing Community
Another thing I asked was to run the numbers and how many students would
I really have to have in order to reach the return on investment of
It is attached and based on a projected 2001â€‘2002 budget, and I
would have a total of 279 students. And what we did there is we took an average because there are in
district and out of district students and we also averaged the number of
credits because there are 3 and 4 credit courses. And we estimated that I would need 279 students using the college's
average student per section, 18 section, would be required.
Obviously, this would be impossible on the budget indicated. But also has implications for the policy of Lansing Community
College. Will there only be
educational opportunities for programs that serve more than 279 students
per year or even if we drop it down to a smaller figure return on
investment let's say of 75 cents, we are still talking about 200 or more
students per year.
Obviously the College must do something to increase the success of
the Quality Assurance education to help students achieve high paying
professional careers. I also have
some information attached that looks at the income.
The businesses and industries also need qualified people to fill
Quality Assurance positions especially with companies that will be
moving to our area to serve General Motors and I understand there will
be 237 of those companies or at least that is what is projected.
(inaudible) Within the technical careers department I indicate there is
a market for a limited number of Quality Assurance apprenticeships.
Recently Quality Assurance courses have been written into other
skilled trades apprenticeship programs.
A reconfiguration of the program or department may increase the
number of students who are aware of good career opportunities. Another
suggestion is that only the Quality Assurance courses be offered at a
one-year certificate of achievement with the option to go on with a
general associates degree in applied science. Students could then take the core requirements and additional
technical electives to complete an associate degree. This maybe a model
for other struggling programs.
For example, there could be a general industrial department containing
various programs at the certificate level with Quality Assurance being
one of these options. This would create greater flexibility for the
students and the programs while servicing the community.
In order to serve the students that are currently enrolled, I
suggest that the degree, the associate degree if eliminated be phased
out over the next two years. I am
all for creative problem solving.
The College can best serve the community by providing
needed skills and knowledge through flexible arrangement of courses
and of programs.
Peggy Gray - President Cunningham, board members, supportive colleagues,
students and concerned public. Good evening and thank you for allowing
me to speak tonight. Two and a
half months ago I choreographed a dance called the Sound of Silence in
which two dancers utilized sign language as a part of the medium in
which to convey my message.
Perhaps I should mention here that the dance was performed in silence
once and then performed again with music.
One of my intentions was to make the audience uncomfortable, perhaps
even mad, that they would not understand what was going on.
I wanted to put the audience in a situation whereby no choice of
their own they were an outsider, they were the ones that were different.
I failed in my goal. The audience wasn't mad, they were moved.
Countless people told me that they looked at something from a
totally new perspective and it made them cry.
This is a perfect example of how our dance program fits within
LCC's mission statement, to enhance the quality of life.
Prospero from Shakespeare?s play, The Tempest, says we are such stuff as
dreams are made on. And he is
absolutely right. It is the art
and familiarity with the humanities in one's life that makes it an
enhanced life. But how do we
quantify that? Two and a half
years ago I chaperoned a group of 8 dance students to Japan to act as
ambassadors to our sister, Saka Hidi, on behalf of LCC which fits within
LCC's strategic plan to develop cultural connections.
These 8 students performed on the finest stage I have ever seen,
which to make a local comparison is larger than the Wharton Center.
The seating, also larger than Wharton?s, had two balconies.
The seats were full on the nights our students performed.
Saka Hidi is a world-class city where the local arts are not only
supported but also well attended.
This performance was a concert that we shared with Kanico (sp) Ballet
troop. I will admit that the choreography that our students performed
was vastly different from what the Japanese performed and yet it wasn't
different. Concepts overlapped such as alien rituals, social morays, legends,
and movement principled in beauty.
Movement is a universal language.
We were able to communicate to the Japanese through dance without
an interpreter. Our 8 students
reached out to and connected with almost 2000 Japanese people that
evening. They did more to enhance
LCC's image there in Japan that individual dignitaries from LCC could
possibly hope to achieve. This would not have happened without the dance
program and yet how do we quantify the impact our students have on these
people on the other side of the globe?
There is a great difference between having ago dance program and a few
dance classes. A dance program
allows students the challenges of performing in demanding and diverse
venues, dance classes do not. A
dance program teaches students the history behind this fantastic art
form and it's relationship to socio political factors as well as other
art movements at this time. Dance
classes do not. A dance program
teaches the students functional anatomy so they may become informed
technicians. Dance classes do
this to a limited degree.
A dance program allows opportunities to learn about and create
choreography in a safe environment.
Again, dance classes do this only to a limited degree.
Above all, a dance program gives LCC an opportunity to have at its
disposal the trained dancers to perform across the world as well as at
Okay, I know that that is not what you are more interested in.
You are more interested in the caâ€‘ching factor.
So let me address that. At
this time we have 22 students according to my records who are designated
or planning to be designated at a dance major.
Last semester when I joined Missy Bischoff as lead faculty, our
goal was to identify and document who our majors were.
Neither Missy nor I had any idea that this was a goal set forth in
a strategic plan 3 years ago. We
just did it. Today our choreography class which all majors need, and is a good
indicator, has 16 students in it.
This is the most students this class has ever had.
Lansing Everett has had an ongoing dance program for 26 years now
and I have to confess that it was easy for me to figure out how many
years ago it was because I was a student in the very first year of it's
existence. Everett dance classes
have always had a reputation of feeding into LCC's dance classes.
Last summer an assistant principal from Everett became a principal of
Owosso High School where he at once began a dance program.
All 5 classes filled to capacity immediately. Here is a new pool of students that will be looking toward LCC to
further their studies. In 2003
Holt school district will open their new high school complete with a
dance studio and plans to hire a full time dance teacher to teach 5
classes a day. Again, another
pool of students from which to draw.
Right here, right now, we are on the cusp of changing numbers that
make or break our dance program.
As of this semester, spring 2001, we have met the goals that we were
required to meet 3 years ago. I
ask you not to look at just past, look at the present and please look at
the future. I am also going to
ask you not to look at other colleges, community colleges as models.
Lansing Community College is the model.
In fact, Dr. Douglas Crawford, a former faculty member here at LCC
while working on his Ph.D., now the Vice President of Instruction and
Student Development at Northwest Community College in Texas says, and I
will quote him.
?In an effort to enrich our community we are creating a dance
After researching community college dance programs nationwide, we
see LCC's dance program as the pinnacle program for which we will model
You know, it is perfectly okay if we are better, it is perfectly okay if
we are on the cutting edge. I
know, we all have this guilt thing, always being in front, always being
the best, and always being innovative.
But we can get over that.
The 8 students that I referred to earlier that performed in Japan, what
are they doing now? One is studying in Poland, one in New York, one in
Chicago, one in Las Vegas, two have opened their own dance studios, one
teaches within the community and is a choreographer in our upcoming
spring show and one will be performing in this same show.
Are they making a lot of money? Probably not.
Are they successful? Absolutely.
Why? Because success begins here at LCC.
Missy Bischoff - Good evening President Cunningham and board members,
faculty, students, thank you, I will try to keep mine to two minutes so
we don't go over our 10. Just a
couple of extra things to follow up on.
Peggy and I, I think you guys should know, this decision really won't
affect our plans very much. We
aren't out to save our jobs because both of us were planning on going
back to school within the next year or so.
So I feel more like we are concerned about the quality of our community
and its future more than we are concerned about our own fiscal futures
here at the College. We are
joined in our concerns by thousands of other community members we have
found out in the past few weeks.
The dance events here at LCC are the best-attended performances in our
main stage seasons every year.
Hot Feet is the best-attended event at the Turner House Festival every
With our Jam Nation event and our Michigan Council Dance Day, our
program brings over 3,000 people to the campus every year who wouldn't
normally be here. Here is a list
of 15 dance schools that are staffed and run.
It appears that the College who made the recommendation did not
take the most recent increase in enrollment data into consideration.
In the spring 2000 semester there were only 6 confirmed dance
majors. There are now 22 confirmed dance majors.
Number 2. The average class size
in the dance program for the academic year 1999â€‘2000, according to the
summary the program review summary consolidation, 9, 2000.
This says that the number for average seat size for the dance
program was 15.2. In the report
that was given for the recommendation, that year was 11.3.
That is a pretty big difference when the college minimum for an
average class size is 12. One shows, according to this document, shows
we are almost operating at capacity and the other shows we are not even
meeting the minimum. So that
should be looked at. The total
number of students enrolled in dance classes has increased 65%.
The fall 1998 semester reported 124 students, while this spring
2001 students have 205 dance students enrolled.
Once again, the most recent data was not included in the analysis
on which the recommendation to eliminate was based.
So if we have met the goals set forth as a result of our program review
3 years ago as far as increasing enrollment and community interest goes.
We believe this proves that.
As far as return on investment goes, we have 5 main proposals that we
are prepared to offer that we believe will greatly affect that and I
will leave this, also. Actually,
you probably all should have one, I dropped off a little packet for each
of you today, but I will leave this as well.
Number 1. Cut one main stage
production annually. According to
the recommendations on programs document issued by the College the
existence of two main stage dance shows per year are a major
contributing factor to the low ROI figures which the dance program has
So we believe relieving 50% of that cost burden would inevitably
have a positive impact on the ROI.
Reduce the remaining main stage production budget.
Set and costume building are two large budget items for each of
these main stage shows. They are
a huge expense for us but we believe we can recycle previously used
costumes and work with minimal to no sets.
Peggy and I are big on that bandwagon, we believe the dances should
be able to speak for themselves and we don't need to spend a lot of
money on set building like we have in the past.
So we are ready to give that up.
We would like to continue recruiting efforts by maintaining an
increasing partnership with the growing public school program.
Peggy talked about Everett being around for 26 years, Owosso just
starting with a booming dance program, and Holt beginning to implement
one in the next few years. And
the implementation of the strategic out reach and marketing efforts that
we have implemented we believe our efforts in the past few years are the
reasons for increases in enrollment and interest in the community and we
will continue with that and that is stated more clearly in this report
We are also prepared to discuss the possibility of reducing the number
of class sections by 50%. Right
now we have separate course numbers for all of our summer classes and
again separate ones for the classes that exist during the fall and the
spring. We believe with the
flexibility that Banner has we can consolidate those as well as right
now we have 5 or 6 repertory classes, we believe we can consolidate
those into one and we are fully prepared to do that.
There has been a discussion going on with Dr. Oberby and Dr. Derr at
Michigan State University about ideas they are willing to support us
with partnerships as well as their movement students go.
Sharing facilities and students with them.
They presented a position paper I believe to the provost so it is
too bad Dr. Oberby is not here to talk more about that.
Any way, in conclusion, we believe the gains we have been able to
enjoy in addition with the community outcry that is proven here makes it
necessary to keep the program at least long enough to see if we can
improve our ROI which I believe we â€‘-strongly believe we can and we
believe it is worth, definitely well worth the effort to try.
Thank you for your time.
Trustee Holden - I have two questions.
One you will have to educate me and the other is a question about
You said many of our students have dance studios, is that a course
of recruitment? If you are
teaching that is an entrepreneurial effort, I understand that, but is
there often dual enrollment where those students are taking dance in
studios here, and if so, what would the percentage of dance studio
students be here at LCC?
Peggy Gray - Absolutely there is dual enrollment. But I don't have any
numbers and percentages with me. I will get that for you and be happy
Trustee Holden - Obviously it is a recruitment effort.
If that is the case I think it would help support your argument.
Now there has been the current recommendation that we not eliminate
dance classes, you talk about program versus classes.
A program is essentially made up of classes that moving into the
theater and music program, what, is there any benefit, can there be a
benefit if that is the decision and recommendation we get?
Peggy Gray - There is always a benefit to keeping the dance classes.
It is impossible to have a dance class because a particular show
happens to need it and expect trained dancers.
It takes a while. It takes a while to become a dancer. Martha Graham said it takes 10 years to make a dancer.
We don't take that long, we don't have that time.
But to just offer a class to augment a particular show is
unrealistic. You won't get what
you are looking for at all.
Missy Bischoff - In the program I think the curriculum would include our
dance academics which is dance improvisation, choreography, dance
anatomy, and dance history. As
far as keeping intelligent, keeping dance as an intellectual form so it
is not just an another physical fitness and wellness class, that the
accommodation of those four classes in the curriculum is extremely
important as keeping it an art form instead of just some sort of
Trustee Holden - Do you think there is hope for my husband with the
Missy Bischoff - Always.
Trustee Pelleran - It is nice to meet you. You mentioned you are
prepared to discuss a 50% class reduction and also condensing moving the
5 or 6 annual creditory classes that you have into one.
And at the same time Peggy you just said it is not possible.
Peggy Gray - I believe, and maybe I misunderstood your question of the
difference between a dance program versus offering a few dance classes.
When we originally got the knowledge that the dance program may be
eliminated, all dance classes would be eliminated unless there was some
theater production that happened to need dance.
Missy Bischoff - Can I address the 50% reduction?
The way it works right now is we have 3 levels of four disciplines
offered in the fall and spring.
Ballet, tap, jazz, and modern. We
have 3 levels of each, and they each have their own course section
numbers. In the summer we have a
whole different set of course section numbers for the same classes,
basically. So we feel, dance 101
is ballet, and dance 111 is ballet in the summer.
We can just eliminate that 111 and keep it 101 for the summer.
Trustee Pelleran - Can you perhaps also enlighten me on, I know you have
summer classes with dance, your students, are they all college students
or do you get high school and middle school students taking your courses
in the summer?
Peggy Gray - We get high school students taking classes all year long.
Middle school, not so much, occasionally.
But high school students absolutely.
We have a very challenging program here and what we find is that
students, they like the discipline and it is almost refreshing to them
to find dance at the collegiate level, it is very different than in the
studios. Which is why losing the
dance program here cannot be replaced at the studio level.
The studios do not do what we do.
Trustee Patterson - Can you tell me what is the value of being a
graduate of a program versus being someone that has attended a number of
In other words if you leave here and you go to Chicago or MSU are
you better off when you say you are a graduate from a program and how
does that help you?
Peggy Gray - I think it depends on the individual and you are absolutely
If you are a very, very good technician you could move into the
Chicago or New York area and do quite well without the degree. However,
if you are going to stay in this area and you want to teach in studios,
it tells the owner of the studio, that yes, I do understand anatomy and
I understand the basics and fundamentals, it is something that is
indicative of having the knowledge.
Trustee Pelleran - One quick question, on these proposals, have you
shared these proposal with anyone else prior to tonight?
Missy Bischoff - Our supervisor, the people in communities and
Debbie Byrne, we discussed it.
We also talked with Dr. Durn and Dr. Oberby at Michigan State to
get their feedback.
Trustee Jeffries - Just a little take off on that.
I am curious and I should have asked some of the other folks that
have already spoken. What was
your involvement in the process for program review?
Peggy Gray - Nada.
Missy Bischoff - Neither of us were here when it first came to be.
Trustee Jeffries -Who was?
Missy Bischoff - Sue Greskowiak.
Peggy - I was here as faculty but not in the lead faculty position.
Trustee Jeffries - So there was someone else in the program that went
through the program review. Were any of these alternatives or options
presented at that time?
Peggy - No.
Trustee Jeffries - Jennifer, you have not seen these?
Provost Jennifer Wimbish - Not these.
Trustee Pelleran - If you could put a dollar figure on these proposals,
what would that be? Have you put a dollar figure on them?
Missy Bischoff - That is very difficult.
Knowing all the variables involved as far as supporting a full time
Trustee Jeffries - Just say lots of money.
Missy - Lots of money.
Trustee Pelleran - On the caâ€‘ching factor, I will speak for myself, and
probably some of the other board members, I don't think we want to give
that impression that the return on investment is just monetary in
nature. And we are very concerned about the community impact of everything
here. Everyone at this table is,
and we want you to know that.
From our hearts to yours.
Peggy - Thank you very much.
Medical Assistant Program
Randall Disbrow - Board of Trustees, President Jeffries, board members,
President Cunningham, and other distinguished guests in the audience.
Thank you for the opportunity to address the board publicly and
personally regarding the recommendation to eliminate the medical
assisting program here at Lansing Community College.
I am the program director for the medical assisting program here at
LCC. I came to LCC a little over
2 years ago to accept the position as program director for the allied
health programs with greater than 25 years experience as a registered
nurse, and a health care practitioner in a variety of settings.
The allied health programs, as you may or may not know, consists of
5 programming areas, allied health consisting of courses with generic
health content, community health services consisting of courses specific
to health career entry level positions such as nursing assistants,
phlebotomy techs, pharmacy techs, a number of all kind of career options
and alternatives all together.
Then the massage therapy program, the medical assisting program, and
finally the surgical tech program.
I draw this distinction only because with the exception of the allied
health core courses, medical assisting is the smallest of these programs
or at least it has been since I have been here.
Therefore, I am here tonight to address you regarding the medical
assisting program. I have
agonized as you may imagine over what I should or should not say in
defense of the medical assisting program.
Unlike other LCC programs targeted for elimination, medical
assisting does not enjoy a strong grass roots level of community support
despite its excellent program accreditation.
So it would be easy to target the program for elimination without
much of a backlash from the public as a consequence.
No petitions, no spontaneous last minute meetings, none of that. In fact, in a way I feel kind of like I am following tough acts and
I am an opening act for what is yet to come this evening.
As you have read in the documentation before you the medical assisting
program has been plagued by low enrollments for the past 3 years. Rather than spend your time reiterating what you have already been
provided with in terms of information to consider prior to rendering a
decision, I would like to introduce a different dimension to your
deliberation. Not whether this
program should be continued or not, but the real risk of a perception
that maybe formed within the health care community within the greater
Lansing area as a result of elimination of not one but several health
career programs at LCC.
A little over a year ago the respiratory therapy program was closed as a
result of low enrollment and high costs.
Now, medical assisting and dental assisting may also be eliminated.
I would propose to you that these closures, much like a person's
body language, maybe perceived in a much different and potentially
unintended manner by the local health care community.
The perception I am eluding to is that LCC doesn't really stand
behind the health career programs despite the language contained in the
strategic plan to the contrary. It was a real fear when respiratory therapy was closed a couple
years ago. It is even more of a
real fear now. That perception I
refer to may unintentionally impact as a consequence the remaining
health career programs as the health care provider community moves it's
loyalty and it's commitment to other health care education and training
providers to insure a steady supply of health care workers for their
If you are truly moving to an institutional system of accountability
here at LCC in which managers make decisions closer to the ground level
of program provision, shouldn't a decision to suspend running the
program for a year or even two in order to raise enrollment numbers be
viewed as preferable to out right elimination of a program all together?
Elimination invites public reaction and out cry by virtue of it's
permanence, temporary suspension of a program for cause invites public
understanding of sound management practice and leaves the door open for
partnering or other creative problem solving avenues. There are those of
us who have worked in the health care community that have seen cycles of
employee scarcity that seem to be related to the health of the economy.
You asked Brenda Brown earlier why low enrollment in health
careers. Well, let me give you my
25 years worth of perspective.
If I, as a parent, and as a registered nurse, choose to advise my own
child not to enter health care because of the stress, the working
conditions, and the changes going on sociologically within the health
care delivery system, that is a tough market to overcome.
If I as a parent or as a high school individual recognize that I
can go to work at Old Navy, make the same amount as I would make as a
medical assistant, not have to deal with life and death decisions or the
risk of acquiring AIDS or other potentially blood born pathogenic
diseases, and still get a 10% discount on my clothing, what do you think
I am going to choose? A booming economy results in low interest in health care as an
occupational area of interest. A
waning economy results in higher interest in the health care sector.
Nonetheless, health care occupations of all types and levels are
forecasted to continue to grow for the next 10 to 15 years and will
undoubtedly undergo these cycles again during that period.
Now that includes medical assisting as well as the other health
care careers. Does that mean that
LCC will eliminate more health career programs in the next cycle of
enrollment downturns? If all businesses chose to eliminate programs or
products in which competition in the market existed or volume
fluctuated, where would the incentive for quality in those products and
In case you haven't caught some of the national programs, there was a
program on Dateline just within the last two weeks on the projected
scarcity in the nursing profession with the average age of nurses now
being in excess of 48 years. I am
a little beyond that myself. The
hidden agenda, the hidden byline in that same program was if nurses are
going to be in extremely scarce supply in the next 10 years the
likelihood that entry level health care career scarcity will be even
It would not be a time; I am here to tell you, to plan to get sick
in this country. Finally, I am
not asking you to reconsider eliminating the medical assisting program.
I am asking you to reconsider the process that limits it's outcomes
to out right elimination of programs in all of it's finality versus
program suspension which permits internal assessment, community based
strategizing and future opportunity to revitalize and reoffer those
programs that have contributed to public perception of LCC's excellence
in the past. Thank you for the
invitation to address you with my comments and your willingness to give
fair consideration to my input in this forum.
I would be happy to entertain any comments.
Trustee Pelleran - I have a question on some of the programs that, now,
dental assistance isn't under your allied health programs at all?
Randall Disbrow - No.
Trustee Pelleran - Is there room for some cross colonization here in
some of these programs?
Randall Disbrow - We are beginning to look at core content common to all
the programs that could be consolidated in order to eliminate
That is a relatively novel idea here at LCC given the past climate
and the current program directors, the current departmental chair and
dean of the division are all extremely perceptive to that idea, as are
Trustee Rasmusson - What would it do to accreditation if you suspended
Randall Disbrow - Accreditation maintenance has a couple options.
Some programs are permitted to put their accreditation in escrow.
Some programs are permitted to move from accreditation with full
status, probationary accreditation, and some programs you have to
voluntarily relinquish the accreditation and apply for reaccredidation
upon reactivation. We have not
explored with CAAHEM, which is the Commission on Accreditation on Allied
Health Education Programs which of those options would be extended to
the medical assisting program as yet.
Trustee Pelleran - Another question, with the medical assistance program
is there a requirement by state statute for certification or degree?
Randall Disbrow - Michigan currently does not regulate medical
However, contrary to the stipulation in the report that says
medical assisting is not a career pathway, there are opportunities for
medical assistants to obtain a national certification for a national
exam offered by the American Association of Medical Assistants, and
frequently by doing that they have an internal career path which allows
them to move from medical assistant to medical assistant supervisor to
medical office manager, if they prefer to go up the administrative
If they prefer to go up the clinical ladder, we do see medical
assistants going on into nursing, physician assistant school, even into
preâ€‘med and eventually becoming physicians.
Trustee Pelleran - Have you had any communication with the Michigan
State Medical Society about this program and their feeling about it?
Randall Disbrow - I sit on the Michigan Health Councils Professional
Advisory Committee to HOSA, which stands for Health Occupation Students
Michigan Health Council also brings to the table the Michigan State
Medical Society and a variety of other practitioner and provider
organizations. The shortage in
health care occupations, in general, has been a top priority for the two
years that I have represented LCC on those committees.
We have labored, belabored, hashed and rehashed how to best counter
act this scarcity of interest in health care careers.
There are no easy fixes; there are certainly no quick fixes.
I personally as part of the marketing efforts on behalf of the
medical assisting program have sent personal letters to well over a
hundred high school students who have indicated at least a marginal
interest in medical assisting and also a follow up letter once we sent
them a packet of information about the program.
Again, we are competing with a take care of me now immediate
gratification generation who likes the 10% discount and the low risk, no
risk, easy, convenient hours of the retail industry.
When that retail industry goes sour they will be looking for
something more permanent. The
beauty of the medical assisting program out of all the health career
options and fields is that the medical assistant right now with 34
openings per every graduate in this area locally is that you can
literally name what days, what hours of the day, and when and where and
sometimes how you want to work.
But we haven't been able to sell that one single feature.
Trustee Pelleran - I know that some of the health professions, and you
are not fitting the traditional gender mold here for a nurse.
Randall Disbrow - That's okay, I accept that.
Trustee Pelleran - And I don't mean anything by that saying, negative or
Randall Disbrow - Well, I will let you off the hook by saying I had an
instructor in my nursing school who said that, Randy, you are a nurse
that happens to be male. You are
not a male nurse. And for the
record, I had to go through the OB training and do it twice as well as
Trustee Pelleran - Thank you for that comment also, so that we are all
as embarrassed, as you were embarrassed.
Which was driving me at a point that I am forgetting. Do we promote
the marketing of all these programs within internally at LCC and what
interaction do you have with the Woman's Resource Center, which I
believe serves both women and men.
Randall Disbrow - That is a correct perception, and to be honest with
you, I would have to say until we were blessed with Lucian Leone here at
LCC very little targeted marketing was done on behalf of the health
careers. Since Lucian has arrived and with President Cunningham's blessing
we have done some more specific more focused marketing for health
careers including the medical assisting program.
I hate to sound trite but sometimes it is too little too late and
with renewed interest in some of these careers I do think, again, in
keeping with the fact that these are cyclical periods that health
careers go through, we could turn the program around.
That is why I am advocating suspension of the program rather than
out right elimination. Once it is
gone, it is gone in the eyes of the health care community.
You can't bring it back.
Trustee Jeffries - You are making the argument really to, as you say;
suspend the program at this point.
The career pathway isn't there, the pay is low, and the responsibility
and liability is so high that nobody wants to do that.
I think you already answered this, you indicated about retooling,
what would you recommend to retool to make this something â€‘-it seems to
me you won't be able to control what the market is willing to pay and I
guess two questions. One, what
would you do to retool to make this more effective for us.
And, secondly, in terms of prioritization, when we are looking at
this program as pathways where we want our graduates to go and types of
jobs we want them to have when they leave here, we have other needs. And how would you prioritize those needs?
Randall Disbrow - Let me address the last question first because
obviously the fiscal responsibility is the primary issue here.
As I mentioned earlier, I have 5 programs. Medical assisting is one of those. The other programs I have are also health care career programs and
it certainly would not hurt my feelings if you chose to reallocate some
funds in their direction, particularly surgical technology.
Because in surgical technology we really do have a facility issue which
was mentioned by our accreditation agency in that we lack assimilated OR
labs in which to allow our students to practice before they go, quote,
Go Live, in the OR. I did say, go
To address your other issue, health care careers as you know are
difficult to make an all virtual training and educational option because
of the clinical component. I
doubt you would want the person about to insert the folic catheter or
give you an injection to do it only virtually.
Trustee Jeffries - I just want Gayland to know that he is coming next.
Randall Disbrow - I am warming them up for you Gayland. On the other hand, there are components of the medical assisting
program that could relatively simplistically be rolled over into a
virtual course offering, those are the conceptual and didactic portions
of the program. In addition, we
could always look at partnering with other institutions so that we
provided a portion of and add on medical assistant program rather than
the whole kit and caboodle. We
haven't explored that. I am here
to tell you that one of the other providers in this community insures
the on going nature of its student enrollment by partnering closely with
the area hospitals in their backyard. Telling the hospitals that if you
hire individuals for this career entry pathway in medical assisting and
then route them through our medical assisting program we will make sure
that you have a quality top notch employee when all is said and done.
So by virtue of that captive audience, that partnership, they
ensure that they have 30, 35 graduates or program students per year.
We have only scratched the surface in discussions along that line
of partnering with the hospitals in this area.
So that would be two ways that we could certainly look at reviving
and renewing the program. I will
also tell you in health careers in general, and this extends to dental
as well, if you ask the health care community whose graduates they
prefer, almost overwhelmingly they prefer to hire an LCC graduate.
Trustee Jeffries - Any other questions?
Randall Disbrow - Thank you very much.
Gayland Tennis - At my advanced age I imagine many of you are surprised
I made it down. Mr. President,
ladies and gentlemen of the board, President Cunningham, students and
friends and colleagues. I also
appreciate the opportunity to present before you a background and a
concept in this particular case dealing with aviation admittedly not
only here in the Lansing area but nationally and internationally because
that is the way our business is.
I am not as eloquent as my colleagues and I find myself more like a
thorn between two roses with respect to my dance colleagues, but I will
do the best I can.
I would like to encourage you to ask questions along the way and I think
that is a good way to bring out various points as we go. I would like to give you a brief summary of my background.
I joined the College in 1979 as an instructor pilot and I taught in
the flight area for two and a half years.
I then moved to the maintenance area and taught that for 3 and half
years. So I am personally
familiar and qualified in both areas and for the succeeding 15 years of
the 21 that I have been here at the school I have functioned as the
director of aviation center. We
now have 3 programs as opposed to 2.
We have also added along the way an aviation electronics program to
this triad, if you will. We have
also changed the focus of the program from it's conception back in 1973
as a small plane training entity that was mostly recreational to what is
now directly targeting commercial application in all 3 areas.
But that brought about a radical change in our program in that it
upped the auntie.
Our target goal is 100% placement and if I think we go back over the
period of years that we have addressed that and we succeeded in that
Our program also is well received in the industry; we have captains
flying for most of the flag carriers at this time.
We currently have a third generation young man that his father was
a graduate of this program and his grandfather took courses at the
aviation center, so that is certainly not making me feel any younger.
I am awed by the presence of my colleagues and personnel presenting
before the board tonight for a number of reasons, if I can digress just
for a moment, and I hope the board shares that perception with me. Here
you have people who have dedicated their lives to this application and
their individual programs. It is
on the line now and their back is up against the wall, yet they can turn
around, still have a positive attitude, laugh at themselves, remind our
supervisors that we are still part of a community team, a college team,
and we are here to march on regardless of which direction the Board and
the College outlines for us, and I am very proud to be part of an
organization like that. I really
Some two to three years into the inception of the program back in 1973
the personnel that came before me saw fit to organize and gain federal
certification for an aviation maintenance program.
Two of the three programs that we have ongoing at this time operate
under federal air regulations, the flight program under federal air
regulation 141 as an approved school, and the aviation maintenance
program under part 147 is an approved school in aviation maintenance.
These two programs and their certification were not won easily. If
an experienced team of professionals coupled with good and heavy support
from their community, sponsoring organization and from the FAA
themselves are able to put together an airframe and part plant,
maintenance technician school in a period of two years, you have
accomplished a miracle. I would
submit to you that these certifications once turned in there is no
They are gone.
My primary motivation this evening in stressing this to you is not to
come with some kind of concept here that may tend to sway you but only
to point out that this is not going to be an easily achieved act in the
fact that we can't simply put them aside and then come back and say we
changed our mind in a couple of years.
Could it be done, yes, but there is down time that would pay the price.
Right now we have a situation within our industry and it crosses over
flight maintenance, aviation electronics, flight attendants, baggage
handlers, I have not seen in the 40â€‘some years I have been involved in
this business the type of opportunities for young people and some not so
young as we are seeing in the industry.
If someone told me that 5 years ago that we would see this, I would say
no, that is not going to happen.
But it is happening. This industry has a way of being rather brutal with
you, also. I will stress that to you in just a moment based on what our
students have to go through in order to survive in the industry.
It can change in the blink of an eye, we are seeing right now, by
way of hiring capability, we are seeing a rapid ratcheting down of the
amount of experience necessary to move from one step to another.
Let me give you just an idea of what I discuss with parents and
their offspring when they come in to discuss flight training as an
application and a career. First of all, I want to create a team type concept.
If the student hears from me what they are going to go through in
gaining success in the industry and then go back and tell mom and dad,
they wouldn't believe it. They
would think they'd invented it some place, I would much rather have them
hear it from me.
From the time the student sets foot in one of our aircraft here at
Lansing Community College until the time their credentials are in order
to present themselves to Ms. Holden, representing United Airlines, as a
major air carrier, as an entry level first officer, 10 years.
10 years of duty on the part of that individual.
We are looking at two years at Lansing Community College, obtaining
your federal certification through zero flight time, through commercial
application with instrument privileges, flight instructor airplane,
flight instructor instrument, flight instructor multiengine aircraft. At that point, they have a twofold mission, they are going to leave
here and one, go directly to a four year university and achieve a degree
in an alternate career track just because the hazard of them not being
successful in the career track we are looking at is significant.
We want them to have a fall back position.
They are also concurrently going to have to address building the
famous aeronautical experience that is best built by functioning as a
part time instructor pilot after duty hours and on the weekends flying
with recreational pilots. If you tally that up we are looking at a 7 day a week work week for
a full time academic student at a major university getting a degree in
accounting, mechanical engineering, whatever that is going to be, and
then working every evening after duty hours on the weekend.
That is necessary. That is what puts the credibility and
Once they have achieved that and we anticipate that to take about 3
years to do this. They then are
eligible to be hired by a regional or commuter air carrier as an
entry-level first officer. Now
Becky pointed out to me that the newspaper today said pilots earn 15
thousand dollars a year. Well,
that is entry-level pay for a regional or commuter first officer. How
can they exist on 15,000 a year? Because they are getting major perks
and benefits and company sponsored training and very expensive equipment
that there is no way they could buy on their own.
That goes on their own certificate.
If they leave the company, it leaves with them.
And the company knows that.
We can fast forward of up to another two and a half years with them
moving over to the left seat as a captain at about 40,000 a year. Their credentials, in order
to compensate Ms. Holden at United, and then take a $10,000 a year pay
cut when she hires them because they are now a first officer for United,
they are no longer a captain with ComAir or United Express.
Rules of the game change here.
No one is going to be failing out of the entry-level first
officer-training course. They are
all too good. We are looking at
about half those people that United puts on as being exâ€‘military
personnel graduates from military flying schools and the other half
captains from regional or commuter areas.
I tell mom and dad this is not a hazard being hurt in the airplane, you
probably have more of a chance being run over by a car crossing the
street than you are going to be hurt in the airplane.
It is a professional hazard in that you may not make the cut. So we
need to develop an attitude, an aggressive professional attitude with
our students and that is what we strive to do.
Flight is our toughie. It is
four times more expensive than the other programs and it is probably 10
times more of a financial risk for the student in gaining what I term
meaningful employment. If I can
digress for a moment and go over to the maintenance student.
The maintenance student in many cases is guaranteed, not a free
ride, is still a two year operation with 1900 hours of mandated training
in which there is no absence allowed.
If the student is sick, ill, misses a class, he comes back in on
the weekends, and we present the class over again for him. This is by
FAA mandate. The curriculum is not a curriculum that Gayland Tennis or Lansing
Community College designed, it is an FAA curriculum, and we are required
to adhere to it. I have
inspectors in our facility at Capital City Airport at any given time
during the week; it may range from FA people from the flight side,
maintenance people from the maintenance side.
In Grand Rapids that is our FA certifying headquarters and also
from the avionics side. So we
have lots of bosses out there and we have to pay attention to all of
Maintenance graduate, upon graduating right now we are being hired if
you will by Continental Express in Knoxville, they are expanding their
maintenance base down there and are looking for 340 mechanics.
Obviously I don't have that many to send them. Starting salary is 14.60 an hour, they are paying $2,500 bonus to
sign, two weeks of free lodging in a local hotel for them and their
family while they find quarters.
Not too shabby for a young person who has accomplished a $6,000,
two year certification program.
Trustee Jeffries - Sorry to interrupt, but I think we have all had a
fair amount of feedback from the community and also from your staff
people, I think we found to be very bright and creative.
Can you please speak to some of the ideas that have come forth from
those communities regarding some of the things that could be done with
the program that would bring us to a more cost effective one?
Gayland Tennis - Yes, sir. I
I am very pleased to find a supportive approach at this time from
industry that, I will be honest with you, hasn't always been there.
Not because they are bad folks, they are good people, but they are
not going to, they are going to look to themselves and that is human
nature. Right now they need us
and they need us very badly and they, I would like to think even if they
didn't, our local folks would be more than willing to get in and provide
some support from a recruiting standpoint.
We got commitments from some of our local entities, by way of
personnel to assist us in contacting young people and informing them of
careers. I still get people here
in the local Lansing area, believe it or not, that after 23 years of
this program being in Lansing, saying I didn't know you were there.
I get anguish from parents and students who are spending $30,000 a
year in Florida saying why didn't you tell us you were out there.
We have a mission to perform in that capacity.
But actual personnel support in assisting recruiting is one area,
and monetary support in that same area for recruiting, primarily in the
maintenance area, is another. We
are exploring, at this time, a number of other interfaces with industry
that I think will be very productive.
I won't try to put a good light on the fact that we have had some
recent cost situations that have cast us in a horribly bad light and I
personally bear the burden of that for not being more proactive in
responding to that. As an
example, back in the, quote, good old days, and that is not too long
ago, we were sitting on an insurance bill annually of $25,000 a year.
Right now it is 114,000. And
I think no one is paying the same price for gasoline at the pump that
they did 10 years ago. We aren't either. And those
costs have to be borne and past on to someone. As you heard at President Cunningham's open forum the other day,
you heard students saying I will do it, I will step up to the plate and
pay the cost. Why aren't they
paying it right now? Because we haven't adjusted the fees.
Trustee Jeffries - Is that an option?
Gayland Tennis - It certainly is an option.
Trustee Holden - With the enrollment figures we have, I assume are
correct (inaudible), avionics, 26, maintenance 66.
Do we have capacity with the current facility and equipment to
expand, and if so, how?
Gayland Tennis - We do. The
current facility and the equipment are set to accommodate 50 students in
flight, 25 in first year, 25 in second.
100 students in maintenance, 50 in the first year, 50 in the second. And
again 50 students in aviation electronics.
Right now we actually are, in fact, over enrolled in flight and we
are now receiving a remarkably strong interest in aviation maintenance
and the question always arises, well, gee, if these jobs are out there,
where are the students. I have
only to â€‘-I can give you the same Reader's Digest that everyone else has,
but I think ours is also a situation with an upcoming generation looking
at some extreme responsibility associated with what they do on a day to
day basis with signing their name to each and every activity that they
perform on an aircraft. While
14.60 doesn't seem bad to me, for that type of responsibility and the
stress that goes along with it, it is probably short.
Trustee Holden - I have another question. What wasn't covered in the
literature, that I am aware of it, because I had discussions with
administration on it. Western has
a fairly new program, I am aware also through my reading of the
newspaper that they have strong partnerships with some airlines.
I also learned very recently that the mechanics program has a lot of
openings. Are they under
capacity, is there some kind of a partnership that can take place with
Gayland Tennis - Every maintenance school in the nation at this instant
in time is under enrolled. They
are all wondering what is going on.
Part of this is a generation perception; part of it is I don't think
anyone is unaware of the fact that we are in serious negotiations, very
emotional negotiations with Northwest Airlines and their maintenance.
United Airlines is following hard on their heals.
We are going through a metamorphosis in the industry, if you will,
of how we treat our personnel. The air carrier industry, basically, they made a bad decision not
too long ago, instead of putting more personnel on to cope with the
rapid expansion that we have done in these good economic times, we will
just work the ones we have longer.
And it is not working. Coupled
with that short fall we have had an unusual number of retirements out of
the system. This together we are
nearing a melt down crisis in the maintenance area in aviation.
If I may answer a question about Western. Western is an old time
program. In fact, when I first
joined Lansing Community College, Western's two programs flight and
maintenance, they do not have an avionics program, looked identical to
ours, a two-year certificate program.
They were lodged under their school of engineering and it has been
as recently as 6 or 7 years ago that Western has totally revamped their
programs integrating it into a 4 year discipline in which still the
flight training that they do and the students receive is absolutely
identical to, we joke about perhaps that ours is better quality, but
absolutely identical to Lansing Community College.
It has to be; it is under the same federal air regulations.
Trustee Creamer - I am not an attorney, but if you could answer this yes
or no, that would be great.
Gayland Tennis - I get the message.
Trustee Creamer - There is a couple of assumptions I am operating under
and received information about, currently the average cost per hour for
LCC for flight instruction is $60 an hour.
For the private sector it is more than twice that.
Am I correct?
Gayland Tennis - No, not precisely.
The $60 an hour is correct, but as we escalate into equitable type
aircraft which is $60 an hour, that probably should be at around 80 to
Trustee Creamer - Am I correct in my understanding that a number of
local flight schools, private schools have closed recently?
Gayland Tennis - That is correct.
Trustee Creamer - Am I correct in understanding that a new air carrier
may be interested in coming to the Greater Lansing area?
Gayland Tennis - That is correct.
Trustee Creamer - Am I also correct in understanding that there are some
creative things you might be able to do from the scheduling standpoint
to put more flight hours in the air with same number of staffing?
Gayland Tennis - That is correct.
You are a lawyer.
Trustee Jeffries - Anyone else?
Gayland Tennis - Any other questions folks?
Trustee Jeffries - Just with regard to the fee, what is the fee that you
charge an hour?
Gayland Tennis - Right now we are graduating our flight students and I
think that is the easiest way to look at this.
The total fees over the two year period achieving the degree with the
credentials, is running right now at around 22 to 23,000.
It is hard to put a hard figure on it because one student may over
fly and another one would pick it up.
Trustee Jeffries - Just in terms of, if I was a student coming in and
wanted to take a class, what would I pay as a fee?
Gayland Tennis - You would pay approximately $4,000 per semester.
And this would cover everything.
Trustee Jeffries - When was the last time that fee was changed?
Gayland Tennis - You see the hesitation on my part because it has been
so long I can't remember.
Trustee Jeffries - Give it a shot.
Trustee Holden - He is a lawyer.
Trustee Jeffries - It better be good.
Gayland Tennis - I will put it this way, I haven't changed them since I
was there, in that capacity. Prior to that time as we changed aircraft
and changed from types and models of aircraft we have made some
adjustments. These are lab fees, tuition is not our business.
Trustee Holden - Does the $23,000 include tuition?
Gayland Tennis - Yes, ma'am.
Trustee Holden - What about the other 2 programs.
Gayland Tennis - The maintenance program, a graduate over a two year
time frame would pay at this time approximately $5,500.
And equitably at Michigan Institute of Aviation and various other
schools here in the State of Michigan, none in the local Lansing area
that provide this same type of training with the same certification, is
Trustee Holden - How about avionics?
Gayland Tennis - Avionics is a relatively different animal in that there
are only about 7 schools of avionics in the United States.
Historically we have tried to rely on the military to provide these
technicians and, of course, frankly, we didn't need all that many.
Now as we are getting into a rapidly emerging, and have been, area
of electronics there is a market for this type of training.
Trustee Holden - The cost.
Gayland Tennis - Cost of that program is approximately $8,000.
And all three programs are two years long.
Trustee Jeffries - I want to get back to the fees for a minute, if I
With regards to the flights, in terms of breaking this down, you
have seen the numbers, maintenance, that program is doing very well.
It is the other three that raise some concerns, at least from a
financial point of view. The fee
structure that would have to be implemented to seriously deal with the
ROI issue, what would we be looking at?
Gayland Tennis - With President Cunningham's concurrence, I don't want
to address in that, that I would have to caution that these are figures
that have been produced from the aviation department and we have not had
a chance to look at these in conjunction with the business office.
In a very generic term we would be looking at $185 on the hourly
fee, that would equate to somewhere around 32,000 for the graduate.
And I would say to you, this is for flight graduate that is
marketable. For the maintenance
student we would be looking at about 9,000.
That is probably a couple thousand dollars under the market and we
have, we are continuing to work with avionics area.
This is an unusual program, and right now we have not been able to
in conjunction with the business office, to do the necessary things in
the program to bring that program to the $1.02 cost effectiveness.
Trustee Jeffries - Let me ask you this, sir, with regards to flight
ground school in avionics, is it fair to say we can adjust the fees,
remain competitive (inaudible), in terms of the marketplace that anyone
else is offering and maintain those programs.
Gayland Tennis - Yes, it is.
Trustee Jeffries - Just a second.
Why hasn't this been done yet, why are we here tonight doing this?
Gayland Tennis - I probably bear the brunt of the burden for that.
Trustee Jeffries - With regards to assets that are out at Capital City
Airport, it is my understanding that we have assets that we currently
don't utilize that are something we can sell off, we have the advantage
to do that, is that true?
Gayland Tennis - That is true.
This is one of the areas ?
Trustee Jeffries - Just a moment.
Let me just ask the question.
What would the value of those assets be?
Gayland Tennis - And this is my own perception, I would say they range
between 400 and 500 thousand dollars.
Trustee Jeffries - How long ?
Gayland Tennis - May I make a comment on that. It is one of the
capabilities that a public school that has an aviation program is to be
able to procure equipment through the federal surplus area. That
equipment is not just a, gee, I think I would like that.
It is in response to a written statement as to how the equipment might
be intended to be used and it is competitive among other agencies, both
law enforcement and public schools.
In fact, public schools end up on the lower end of the pecking order.
But once acquired, that piece of equipment is then used in the program
for five years, it reveres to sole ownership of the College and the
College can dispose of that in the means they see fit.
All schools of aviation utilize this technique in order to help
fund the program and defray some of the cost.
We have also and over a period of time that I have been with the
school, I think we marketed and sold 4 separate aircraft, I
unfortunately cannot give you the exact figures but we are talking in
the multiâ€‘hundreds of thousands of dollars.
None of this has really been channeled into the equation to look at
that as a portion, as a means of funding the cost of the program.
Trustee Jeffries - We don't have a schedule then that you established
that would track the assets and say at a certain point we sell them off,
do we do that?
Gayland Tennis - We do not formally, no.
One asset that we currently have but we haven't retained it long enough
to be allowed to sell it. We also
have another asset that was issued to us as a combat aircraft.
This cannot be sold. If we
don't have any use for it anymore, it is returned to the federal agency.
Trustee Jeffries - When was the last time you sold some assets?
Gayland Tennis - Becky, help me.
Beckie Beard - Last year, $60,000 aircraft. That is what we got.
$60,000. It was valued at
50,000, but Gayland got us 60,000.
Trustee Holden - Gayland, the information we have is that a little over
half our students are out of state.
I know historically we have had a lot of international students.
Could you give us the break down of how many of our students are
Gayland Tennis - It varies over from program, from flight to
maintenance, but historically we have had at least 10% of our students
have been international students.
I value that very highly. I think
that is a significant part of our American student's education to be
able to attend classes, to get to know people from other cultures, other
religions, and other backgrounds and know how to work alongside them as
aviation personnel. We have had a significant number of students from
out of state ranging as high as 50% of the students in various programs.
At one time, by act of God, not by any design on our part, the
avionics program was totally populated by international students.
But of course, within a two-year time frame, they traded out. Right
now in the room we have representatives from Japan, Korea, from Kenya,
from Saudi Arabia. And I look at
that as a valuable asset to our American students.
Trustee Pelleran - Mr. Tennis, on the College's flights in and flights
out, what impact does that have on the Capital City Airport and it's
ability to have profunctioning and credit from the FAA?
Gayland Tennis - The staffing and manning of the various federal
agencies that are traffic control notwithstanding is predicated on the
number of air operations and we are one of the dingys on a dayâ€‘toâ€‘day
basis. I don't know, Tom Schmitz here, might know how we step up with
that, whether we â€‘-I can't say we provide the bulk of the air
operations, I don't believe that we do.
Do you have an idea, Tom?
Tom Schmidt - I don't either, but it contributes a significant amount of
Gayland Tennis - And the tower count is the manning and staffing level.
Also our flight service station here in the Lansing area, our
students are calling in hourly for preflight briefings, weather
briefings, etc., so that manning level also is significantly influenced
by the activities that Lansing Community College aviation conducts on a
Trustee Pelleran - If the aviation program were eliminated, what would
that mean to Capital City Airport and its ability to function?
Gayland Tennis - I can't speak for Tom in that respect, but if I were in
his position I would hate to see that happen to be very honest with you.
I think it is an extraordinary blend of professional training with
other aviation entities, commercial aircraft entities and corporate
travel here in the Lansing area.
It is an attraction to a company's desire to site and do business here
Trustee Pelleran - Having said that, would there be any ability for
partnerships, looking at also the local units of government and maybe
state government for some additional funding?
Gayland Tennis - Yes, there are certainly opportunities for that.
I was just approached this afternoon by a representative from
Advanced Aviation Management who bases an aircraft here for Dart
Container Corporation. We discussed for about an hour an interface
between Lansing Community College Aviation entities and their
maintenance facilities and storage facilities for their corporate
aircraft. I was very embarrassed to find out that the gentleman I was talking
to was a graduate of our own program, but way back in 1978.
But it is an indication that the guys and gals are all over the
place. I can't travel anywhere
that I don't get somebody waving at me, and at my age my memory isn't
worth a darn, but it reminded me of when they graduated and where they
Trustee Creamer - Sally, I will just say this to you only because I
don't know where else it falls. But one of the things I learned in this
process is that the instructors, that I think you call lab techs, they
somehow I guess are involved in collective bargaining. It seems to me
that their interest as instructors is really one of the number of flight
hours that they can get because they are using those flight hours for
future certification. It seems to me we might be able to do something creative where they
have no interest seemingly in benefits, they have interest in creating
additional flight hours, for part time, if that is something.
Sally Pierce - They do have some interest in benefits, but yeah, there
are things. We talk about those,
and yes, they continue to ask to talk about those things. But thank you, it came up at the senate meeting today before I came
The Board took a short recess at 8:50 p.m. and reconvened at 9:00 p.m.
Glenn Kirk - Mr. Kirk stated that
the Board has a tough job and that's where leadership counts when making
tough decisions. He commended the
Board for having let the President do her job.
The President and her staff have shown fearless leadership in
addressing an issue that should have been addressed years ago.
Mr. Kirk stated there is no doubt in his mind of the leadership
team that is in place to lead the Board through these tough decisions.
He urged the Board to work with them and listen to them.
Brad Eschler - Mr. Eschler
represents the Central District Dental Society and serves as treasurer
and on the Board of Directors. He
stated that the 234 active members support the concept of training
dental assistants in the Lansing area.
Traditionally this has been done by LCC.
He said it is disturbing that the dental assistant program is being
considered for elimination. Mr.
Eschler stated that they hoped in the future they could work together to
preserve this vital educational experience in our community some
John Willoughby - Mr. Willoughby
stated it has been gratifying to see the levels of involvement the Board
has had in communication with the Dental Community.
He truly believes the College has an asset that is not being
utilized. The current structure of the dental assistant program is not
allowing the College to completely train the workforce because of the
standard regimen of classes. He
stated that Dental Association developed a program that does 1/5 of the
College's program and with that a half of million dollars was generated
with minimal costs. That can be
done here at the College. He
encouraged the Board to bring together the creativity of the dentists
and the College's staff to continue the dental assistant program.
Armando Cardenas - Mr. Cardenas
is the President of AeroGenesis Aviation in Lansing.
He stated that he is aware of the difficult task the Board has in making
this decision. His company has
built a major maintenance facility in Lansing and they are employing 28
graduates of LCC. Mr. Cardenas
stated that AeroGenesis is looking to hire locally 75 to 80 technicians
in avionics within the next 12 and 18 months.
He stated that the industry is in need of good technicians and good
Joel Malentine - Mr. Malentine is
an Aviation student and a student pilot.
He stated that he felt students have been lied to and it leads to one
direction, to administration. Mr.
Malentine stated that the Aviation Program has many assets that are not
being used. He said that there
are students begging to enroll in the Flight Program, but are being
redirected to the maintenance field.
He stated that if the Aviation Program were eliminated there would
be a spiral effect. It will
affect the airport, downtown campus, and the electronics department.
Patrick Wiseman - Mr. Wiseman is
an Aviation student and is also a member of Junior Achievement and
served on the Youth Committee for the Clinton Administration.
He felt that he received excellent training in the Aviation
Program. He mentioned that on February 12 he flew to Mackinac Island and
encountered instrument conditions, had zero visibility and due to the
training he received was able to fly and land the plane successfully.
Mr. Wiseman stated he would pay higher fees if it meant for the
program not to be eliminated.
Richard Kugel - Mr. Kugel is an
aviation maintenance instructor.
He read a statement from Air Wisconsin.
Globalization of commerce has precipitated a level of activity in
the aviation industry that has not been seen before.
This activity has come to Capital City Airport in the form of a bid
from Air Wisconsin to build a $7 million aircraft maintenance facility
that would employ about 100 people.
AeroGenesis has embarked on a plan to provide maintenance for regional
air carriers, which will necessitate the hiring of 75 technicians in the
next 18 months both entities, expressed an interest in hiring qualified
graduates from LCC's Aviation program.
In addition, the Michigan Department of Career development estimates
average yearly openings for 83 aircraft mechanics statewide in this
Lansing Community College is in a position to continue the quality
aviation education it has provided in the last 28 years.
John Lakin - Mr. Lakin is an
assistant chief flight instructor and chief ground instructor for the
He stated that in the past ten years fees have not increased in the
Aviation program. He said that
after meeting with the Business office and Dean Predko, if the Flight
program raised their prices they would have a return on investment of
$1.02 as well as changing the curriculum.
Mr. Lakin stated that with having new companies coming into the
local area, he said that the Aviation Program would be a viable and
pertinent part in the community.
Julie Jasman - Ms. Jasman is an
aviation graduate and a certified flight instructor.
She stated that the recommendations heard are not new to the aviation
program staff. In February 1999 a
letter was written with many of the same ideas that already been
received. These recommendations were ignored and the program continued as it
has been run. Ms. Jasman stated
that new leadership is imperative to move into the 21st
century and to effectively make the changes that are required. The LCC Aviation is a dream to many students and is her career.
She asked that the Board allow the staff to make the necessary changes
and show that they can be a vibrant part of LCC.
Ron Onufer - Mr. Onufer is an
aviation student and is now licensed private pilot.
He was encouraged to become a certified flight instructor. He stated that the Aviation program never has and never will meet
the criteria. It does what it
does. He suggested that as the
stewards of the College to look at the Aviation program in how it should
be done to help it be a good program for the industry, for the
community, and for the people who come looking to learn how to fly.
Rodne LeCouteur - Mr. LeCouteur
is a flight instructor and is a graduate of Western Michigan University.
He stated that there are number of instructors who are looking to
advance themselves in the field, not so much at LCC, but who would like
to fly more but are unable to because of contractual problems.
Western Michigan University is ready to close its doors for
enrollment in the flight area. WMU cannot meet the needs of the students that are coming in.
LCC has a good program and it needs some changes, but it can be
financially responsible. He asked the Board to continue the program.
Jacob Haman - Mr. Haman is an
avionics graduate working in the field at AeroGenesis and is also a
He stated that he would be willing to pay the extra fees to keep
the program running. He addressed
the various alternatives for aviation students that were mentioned in
the program review recommendation report.
Carla Goggenheim - Dr. Goggenheim
addressed the Board on behalf of the dance program. She stated that the
United States is behind most 1st world and 3rd
world countries in its support of the arts.
Dance in America has happened in the colleges and dance is the life
breath of the community. She said
that U.S. colleges have led the way in innovation, dance education, and
helping Americans define who they are.
She stated that the cost factor is not important here.
Probably less than 6% of professional dancers are employed full
time in their profession and their salaries are unsatisfactory.
Keeping the integrity of the dance program is important because you
cannot carry on without the breath of what it takes to make a dance
program. Dr. Goggenheim stated
that eliminating the dance program would harm the Theatre and the Music
Chris Laverty - Mr. Laverty
currently chairs the Workforce Development Board for the capital area
and vice chairman of the LCC Foundation Board.
Mr. Laverty feels that all the programs are important and should be
maintained. He suggested that the Board consider a moratorium for one year.
He stated people need time to implement the suggested ideas; people need
the leadership, tools, and knowledge on how to show return on
Jolyan Vincent - Mr. Vincent
addressed the Board on behalf of all of the programs.
He stated that by eliminating the Aviation program we would be
eliminating alternatives for the region.
Mr. Vincent suggested raising tuition and elimination of specific
program fees. He recommended that
the Board have another forum and that it be publicized more.
Ron Redman - Mr. Redman is
employed at LCC as the Apprenticeship Coordinator.
Before coming to LCC he worked in automotive manufacturing for 32 years.
He said that the one area that the private sector has always done a
good job of measuring is cost and return on investment.
However, not once has he been exposed to an organization that
gained any long-term advancement in their organization by focusing on
cost and ROI. When decisions are
driven by ROI, the companies become very short sighted, they lose their
customer focus and are soon in worse shape than before they implemented
the process. Mr. Redman suggested
considering changing the ROI model to a continuous quality improvement
model and consider letting customers drive LCC.
Penny Owen - Ms. Owen is from the
Lansing community and taught at LCC for 20 years.
She said that the mission is to support the needs of the community as a
Ms. Owen stated the arts could improve educational performance,
lower the rate of teen pregnancy, increased birth rate babies, decrease
the crime rate, and increase physical health in the community.
She stated that the aforementioned is not being evaluated in the
program review process. Ms. Owen
said that the Boardshead Theatre, Riverwalk Theatre, Lansing Civic
Players, and the Performing Arts Department at Michigan State University
have all written letters in support of saving the Dance Program at LCC.
She stated that the performing arts are like a tree.
Every one of the disciplines is a root and you can't cut one of the
roots and expect the tree to live.
Bob Curr - Mr. Curr is a recent
graduate of the Aviation Maintenance Technician Program.
He stated that across the world there are a shortage of maintenance
technicians and pilots. The
Aviation Program is vital. He
suggested for the tuition rates be increased.
Todd Heywood - Mr. Heywood
distributed to the Board a letter (letter is on file with the official
He stated that the Board might not have a real argument from the
administration to make any of the cuts.
Currently two thirds of the budget, which includes the
administration, the Athletics Department, and the student services
programs, has never been evaluated and recommendations are already being
forwarded to cut six programs.
Feels that everything should be reviewed before cuts are made.
John Lennox - Mr. Lennox is an
instructor in the Performing Arts Department at LCC.
He said that Jackson Community College used to be one of the premier
performing arts programs in Michigan and then they cut Dance.
Once Dance died people who attended for cross training in Music and
Dance left. They then cut Music
due to low enrollment. This was a
mistake that JCC made and are now learning from.
He stated that smart people learn from other people?s mistakes.
He said that he is proud of his students succeed because of what
they were taught at LCC, to love this art, to live this art, and to
learn it. That is why we are
The arts are inextricable.
You cannot remove one and keep the others successful.
To remove Dance takes away our origins.
Jesse Green - Mr. Green is part
of the Dance Program at LCC. He
realized that LCC cannot be all things to all people, but LCC can be a
place where students and other members of the community can receive an
education that will help them both in their chosen vocation and in their
He feels the Dance program does this.
The Dance Program benefits the community as a whole and fills a
cultural need in the world.
Kirk Vedick - Mr. Vedick spoke on
behalf of the aviation program.
He stated that in western Michigan high school students would have the
opportunity to spend two years in an aviation program prior to attending
college. He also spoke of other initiatives targeting high schools.
Andy Callis - Mr. Callis is the
lead faculty for the Theatre Program at LCC.
Mr. Callis stated that the strategic plan is a good direction for the
He said that if we are to take the words of the plan seriously, we
need to save the dance program. Mr. Callis feels that faculty was not given sufficient information
or communication regarding the program review process.
Justin Banks - Mr. Banks serves
on the Board of Directors for the Riverwalk Theatre in Lansing.
He read a resolution from the Riverwalk Board regarding the
elimination of the Dance Program.
(The resolution is on file with the official Board materials.)
Steve Gathman - Mr. Gathman is an
He stated that you couldn?t put an ROI on human education.
He thinks the answer is not to cut programs, but to expand the
Douglas Smith - Mr. Smith spoke
on behalf of the Quality Assurance program.
In his role as a professional quality manager, he is a senior member of
the American Society for Quality.
He stated that the demand for quality in the goods and services we
purchase will only increase.
LCC's Quality Assurance Program is a cost effective deliverer of quality
training and knowledge.
Lynnette Overby - Ms. Overby is
the president of the Michigan Dance Council and past president of the
National Dance Association and is a faculty member at Michigan State
University. She spoke for supporting maintenance of dance as a separate
discipline. She said the she and others are willing to work with members
of the faculty to maintain dance as a separate discipline.
Jon Iversen - Mr. Iversen is a
student at LCC and planning to enroll in the Aviation Program.
He stated that it is admirable that the aviation students have
stated they are willing to pay higher fees in order to keep the program.
Lansing?s aviation community is going to rely upon LCC's future
graduates from the Aviation Program because of the aviation expansion.
Mr. Iversen suggested that the estimated 29 companies that will be
relocating to Lansing, due to the automotive industry, be researched to
verify if they contain aviation departments.
Jason Kavetsky - Mr. Kavetsky is
a theatre student at LCC and spoke on behalf of the Dance Program.
He said that dance is an integral part of the Theatre Program,
which is a program LCC is keeping.
Melissa DeMong - Ms. DeMong is
the president of the Michigan Association of Professional Court
She stated the enrollment in the Court Reporting Program is on the
rise and the facts in the Program Review report are outdated.
She encouraged the Board to allow LCC to be viewed in the community
where success truly begins.
Stuart Shafer - Mr. Shafer is a
He spoke in opposition of the elimination of the Court Reporting
Program. He feels that it was a
terrible failure of the administrative process in getting to this point.
He said it was a one-sided process.
Mr. Shafer suggested that a forum take place where administration,
faculty, students, and members of the community come together and focus
on the problem and try to find solutions.
Trustee Patterson stated that
administration continues to struggle with revenue.
Administration currently struggles with faculty equity, facilities, and
He supports the administration by bringing this information to the
Board in a fashion that is understandable.
Carl Zayatz - Mr. Zayatz
currently heads the Infection Control Program at Ingham Regional Medical
Center, is a private pilot, and a student at LCC.
He currently is seeking the airframe and power plant technician rating.
He said that you couldn?t deliver poor quality services in the
Aviation community and be in business very long.
Mr. Zayatz stated that LCC has an excellent Aviation Program that
delivers high quality service. He
suggested the Aviation Program be advertised and promoted more.
Jason Hartnagle - Mr. Hartnagle
spoke on behalf of the Aviation Program.
He has received many awards, but these awards will not grant him a job. He loves working jets. Mr.
Hartnagle came to LCC because it was affordable and heard it had an
excellent Aviation Program.
Anna Ruth Munk - Ms. Munk is an
She spoke for the Dance Program and urged the Board not to
Melanie Mitchell - Ms. Mitchell
is a new dance student at LCC.
She transferred to LCC from MSU because of the dance program.
Ms. Mitchell suggested advertising and promoting the programs and
encouraged the Board to not eliminate the program.
Serenity Hayes - Ms. Hayes
graduated from LCC with an Associates Degree in Dance.
She said that music, dance, and theatre go hand in hand. The first show she did was called Shama and could not have survived
without all three art forms.
Ms. Hayes stated she has grown as a dancer and as an individual
thanks to the instruction given through the Dance Program.
John Rossi - Mr. Rossi is a
part-time instructor in the Aviation Program.
He stated that cutting programs is similar to losing a part of yourself.
Steve Ziegenhagen - Mr.
Ziegenhagen is a graduate of Western Michigan University, was a flight
instructor at LCC for 16 years and currently works for AeroGenesis.
He said that the Aviation Program has an impact in the community
and Lansing is one of the only cities in Michigan that has a 24-hour
tower because of the traffic count generated by the College.
Mr. Ziegenhagen stated that Superior Aviation hires a lot of pilots
so there are local jobs available.
He doesn?t feel the criteria of whether the employers are local or not
should be used in eliminating the program.
Joe Anderson - Mr. Anderson is a
Music major at LCC.
He stated there needs to be continuity with the Arts.
If you start cutting one art, then the other arts are going to
fall. He feels all of the
programs can be saved through negotiations.
Gene Hayhoe - Mr. Hayhoe was an
instructor at LCC for about 20 years.
He stated that one of the problems is that money is being spent on
things that have little to do with education.
He said the money should be directed to instruction and programs.
Mr. Hayhoe stated that another problem is the lack of advertising
Brian Collver - Mr. Collver is an
Art of Education and Biology student.
He spoke on behalf of the Dance Program.
He stated if the people had received communication regarding the process
they would have made improvements to the program.
Steve Simonson, Vice-President of the Part-time Clerical Technical Union
- I'm here to report that we are disappointed with management?s approach
to and conduct of our contract negotiations.
Management?s conduct during these negotiations has shown a lack of
respect for our members. The
management?s economic and workers rights proposals have consistently
shown that they do not value part-time employees and the work they do
for the College. The majority of
our members work 30 hours or more per week.
This is effectively full-time employment.
Nearly every one of us is involved in providing front line personal
service for the students of Lansing Community College.
However, our group is denied vacation time, sick time, and holiday
time, another paid time off that the rest of the College employees
enjoy. These quality of life issues are key to contributing to the social
well being of our community. We
feel that the College has a societal obligation to treat all of its
employees fairly and equally. We
feel that the College has an obligation to treat us with respect as
members of the community and as employees of the College and as people
with families to support. It is
absurd for the College to claim to be fair and equal in its employee
relations when our group the PT-CTO is shown little or no respect
economically in the areas of workers? rights.
Our position has always been one of equity and we feel that it is
justified to seek respect from the College for our rights and to seek
our economic due from this institution.
I could give you an example of the some economic injustices suffered our
members. The average full-time staff member gets one sick day per month
of the year that is roughly 96 hours of sick time per year.
The full-time employees also get vacation days and are paid during
holidays as breaks when the College is closed.
Part-time clerical technical union members get 40 hours of time off
per year. This is to be used in lieu of sick days, vacation days, and to
cover the gaps left in our checks for the result of unpaid holiday and
bereave time. So, President
Cunningham and esteemed Board member, if you care about the quality of
this institution, we implore you to be fair to all employees and to
correct these inequities.
Tom Ferris, Bargaining
Representative for the Part-Time Clerical Technical Union - There is a
misperception that part-time CTU is composed of what we've heard across
the table as super students.
Where just student employees who pen to get a little more bump in their
wages. Most of our members work 30 hours a week.
They do not have the opportunity to get other jobs because essentially
they have a full-time job down here.
Yes, it is true that the majority of our members have only been here for
four years or less. But if you had to work at an institution where you got a half day a
month to use for sick time, vacation time, and holiday time and try to
get some economic security, you wouldn?t hang around long either.
That is the reason why we have that dynamic working within our
unit. The issues we have
remaining at the table are few.
We've got issues of respect, as Steve said. With the atmosphere that has been swirling tonight and will swirl
for the next couple of years, we think that part-time CTU members ought
to be able to have some adequate notice for when they are going to be
laid off and have rights and access to vacancies for which they qualify.
we're looking for just cause dismissal, if evaluated poorly that they
are given time to correct their mistakes.
Those are the issues that are separating us on language and the issues
of economics it's wages and paid time off.
We've had almost 30 bargaining sessions and we've got one more
session scheduled this Friday at 2:30.
At that time we will see if we can, with the assistance of the
state mediator, resolve these differences.
If we can't, we're going to have to seek of the assistance of a
state appointed fact finder to get a public objective opinion of where
we are. We've tried very hard to
be collaborative in this round of negotiations. We want to walk away
from the table with both the College and the part-time CTU feeling good
about the process we've been through.
It's been more difficulty to do that.
WE don't need an outsider to tell us what's right; we know what's
right. You?re bargaining team knows what's right, we know it's right.
We just have to get together and do that.
The audience gave a round of
applause for the Board for staying to hear everyone?s comments.
Chairperson and Board Member
Chair Jeffries moved agenda item
6A President's Report, Program Review before the Chairperson and Board
President Cunningham thanked
everyone for voicing his or her concerns and asked Provost Jennifer
Wimbish addressed the level of involvement in the program review
Provost Wimbish addressed the
She stated that from November 4th through December 14 we
met with 18 programs for one hour.
Many of those programs presented proposals similar to those presented
For programs that had been reviewed for three years, the process
may have been different, but criteria for the reviews were the same.
Eighteen programs were reviewed and while six were heard from
tonight, the other twelve programs reviewed need significant resources
and will receive College support.
She stated that there are
programs that do not have full-time faculty needing major curriculum
revisions. There are programs not having state of the art technology and
producing students who are not able to go out into the work force with
that kind of technology. If
things continue the way they are and some of the programs don't have the
resources, their quality will suffer.
She stated that some faculty did not believe programs would be
recommended for elimination.
Mr. Bill Brown stated that data
was derived from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, which came through the
Michigan Employment Service Agency.
The most recent employment projections were used.
The data received was for the Lansing, East Lansing, and
metropolitan statistical areas.
He stated that the Michigan Department of Career Development, the
Regional Analysts for the Michigan Employment Service Agency, and Office
of Labor Marketing Information, reviewed the team?s data.
Glenn Cerny stated the resource
allocation data has always been available to College faculty and staff
on the share drive of the College's network.
He stated that both the Vice President Larson and himself truly believe
everyone needs to see the financial information.
He encouraged anyone that had questions about the data, to visit
the Business office. A resource
allocation data model is being used.
Unfortunately, the College has a static budget. Seventy-five
percent of the revenue comes from the taxpayer.
The revenues from property taxes, state appropriations are not
under the College's control.
President Cunningham stated that
if numbers were the only factor driving this process, we would be
eliminating the Nursing Program, a lot of the technology programs, and
the Star Institute. There were a variety of factors involved in the recommendations not
just numbers. Also, people not
represented in this room are those that wanted to sign up for an
information technology or a writing course and were turned away. They are also a part of the big picture.
Trustee Holden stated there were
many misperceptions stated tonight.
She suggested a communication sent explaining the misperceptions.
President Cunningham stated that
many people were communicated with prior to the recommendations. She said that it had been communicated that jobs would be
eliminated, divisional leadership teams were addressed, and anyone who
wanted to talk about this. People
knew that programs would be eliminated, but they did not believe it.
We will continue to listen and sit down with the six programs and
partnerships will be explored.
of Trustees Election Resolution--
Jeffries stated there would be an election on June 11, 2001.
At this election a total of three trustees will be elected.
Two trustees will be elected to the Board for regular 6-year terms
beginning July 1, 2001 and ending June 30, 2007.
One trustee will be elected to serve the remaining portion of the
regular 6-year term, which commenced on July 1, 1997, and ends on June
Pelleran made a correction to the resolution regarding the location.
It should read Old Central, Room 129.
Board approved the election resolution.
Board Member Reports
There were no Board member
Board would be going into closed session to discuss this agenda item.
Approval of Minutes ?
President Cunningham presented the January 16, 2001 meeting minutes for
Trustee Creamer asked that the
minutes reflect his comments regarding the Board officially accepting an
Anne O. Cauley, Dean, Business and Community Institute
Darryll King, Coordinator, Multi-Cultural Center, Student and Academic
Mary Lou Kendrigan, Faculty Member, Social Science, Liberal Studies Division
IT WAS MOVED by Trustee Holden
and supported by Trustee Patterson to accept the President's report as
Ayes: Creamer, Jeffries, Holden, Patterson, Pelleran, Rasmusson
IT WAS MOVED by Trustee Patterson
and supported by Trustee Holden to go into closed session for the
purpose of discussing negotiations.
Ayes: Creamer, Holden, Jeffries, Patterson, Pelleran, Rasmusson
The Board went into closed session at 11:55 p.m.
The Board returned to open session at 12:55 p.m.
Todd Heywood - There are $263,000 plus dollars spent on this consultant
and the Board had not voted on the contract.
President Cunningham had just informed the Board of the contract
extension. As a community we
should start talking about the way money is being spent by this college.
If the issue is reallocating funds to necessary programming, why
are we talking about hiring consultants and cutting programs?
It seems that you would stop hiring consultants and keep programs.
That seems the logical process. I will be filing a FOIA tomorrow
morning for all of your notes that were passed during the meeting.
The meeting was adjourned at 1:00 a.m.